National Youth League Fixtures and Mariners youth team discussion

[marinermick]

He is actually a tad older than the rest.

. yep i realise that (ineligible for youth next year i believe ???), but that is why i was asking ... we have apparently already signed 5 players eligible for youth to first team contracts

. the squad is filling and there can't be too many more spaces for relatively young, inexperienced 'potentials' ... what does it all mean?

According to an article I saw on 442 this morning, it all means that CCM have let Panni go.

. interesting 'pathway' we are offering

not really a pathway though as he didn't come through the local junior ranks

we grabbed him from the state league and after one season moved him on

 

[bikinigirl]

. mick i think the point is still valid though ... from an outsiders point of view (and i include myself in that description), what does a kid have to do to be promoted from within?

. people on the forum have been talking up panni and mitchell for a while, but instead we sign guys (to first team contracts) from other youth teams and some (on here) don't seem to rate some of these guys all that highly

. what the club is spruiking and what is being seen are a little different

 

[elevated position]

The reality is the the pathway system is just beginning and already from the yoof are two players, Ryan and Lewis, both are good players and will benefit from being around the top team. And I will make a prediction that by 3/4 way of the season Lewis will be a regular starter. Both can play down at yoof and have continual game time.Panni on the other hand was unfortunate because of his age and  a desicion had to be made. Panni or another over age spot?
When you look at what they are doing as in bringing younger players to the club other yoof will see the opportunities and will come.
Each year the yoof will shed players, some we will regret their leaving and some we will wonder how they got a gig in the first place, but if the system that the CCM lay down works only a few of the good ones will slip through.

 

[marinermick]

The reality is the the pathway system is just beginning and already from the yoof are two players, Ryan and Lewis, both are good players and will benefit from being around the top team. And I will make a prediction that by 3/4 way of the season Lewis will be a regular starter. Both can play down at yoof and have continual game time.Panni on the other hand was unfortunate because of his age and  a desicion had to be made. Panni or another over age spot?
When you look at what they are doing as in bringing younger players to the club other yoof will see the opportunities and will come.
Each year the yoof will shed players, some we will regret their leaving and some we will wonder how they got a gig in the first place, but if the system that the CCM lay down works only a few of the good ones will slip through.

what he said

two players already promoted from youth

 

[goingtoadisco]

If you can get one in ten players that come through a development system into the first team you are doing well.

 

[FFC Mariner]

We also "uncovered" the Judas c**t and Bozanic - sadly, competition for the best juniors will always be feral.

 

[bikinigirl]

. yep i realise all that ... but i do get mixed messages from you guys

. lewis was already signed with the big boys and ryan (i reckon) was only signed because redmayne left - realistically he wouldn't have been picked up otherwise and is unlikely to see much time in the a-league. with your targets of two per year from our youth i'd say we really only picked up one half of a player

. the question still remains about the other three kiddies we signed ... are they better than our own youth options ... only time will tell

 

[FFC Mariner]

I think Ryan was going to get picked up, the kid gets huge raps from everyone and is only 17(?)

 

[Jaza_SFC]

Two per year from NYL is an optimistic figure. If you can get 1 per year you're doing well IMO. You might sign 2 and only have 1 make it long-term, but getting 2-out-of 18 or so to become pros every year is pushing it.

EDIT: I doubt there were 20 kids in this year's NYL that could have stepped up. Each club has an average of 1 or so IMO.

 

[FFC Mariner]

That number might improve if we ever had a reserve/second tier comp.

Clubs are forced to make decisions on a players ability to make the move from NYL to HAL. With a step in between, you can see how a player develops between the ages of 21-23.

NSWPL in winter doesnt help but the 3 HAL clubs fielding teams/linking with one formally makes sense

 

[joeg]

EDIT: I doubt there were 20 kids in this year's NYL that could have stepped up. Each club has an average of 1 or so IMO.

Jaza, you are spot on. Hence the concern by some that CCM have signed 5 from this years NYL, including Matty Ryan; but no-one  is questioning his pedigree. If the strategy was to pay minimum wages to guys who are not yet at A-League level, presumably to save for your gun Sth American, who is single handedly going to win the league for you, couldnt at least one of the signings have been your own NYL player of the year.
It would seem more likely with these signings, Arnie is doing favours for his FFA mate Jan Ver-something-Dutch who was associated with all the other boys signed. Jans results to date are pretty ordinary AIS boys he had for two years came last and were very boring to watch (but hed blame that on GVE), u20 world cup failure to win a game or even lose well. Wonder if Jan has anything to gain from these signings? Maybe a little credibility at FFA? Maybe we uder-estimate Arnie and in fact Jan in return will supply Arnie links to some Dutch no 10 world beater.
So Bikinigirl, there are a few of us with you, asking the question about the propriety of the recent signings but getting the same old answer that our yoof were shit, despite winning the comp and/or Panni is no Griffiths - ?. And yes I think all this would damage the attractiveness of a CCM yoof offer.
Having said that, whats done is done, our senior yoof have been moved on now and next years yoof will be exceptionally strong with all these signings most likely playing yoof all year. If Arnie can get some results from what will hopefully be a potent but slim first team then CCM will be the club of envy, and Arnie will be a genius. Otherwise well just sledge Arnie and lament Lawries moving on us forumites really cant lose.

 

[Jaza_SFC]

There's two aspects of it:

#1) A heap of people are whinging CCM are picking up other youth instead of theirs.
This is unfounded. Any club should get the best players possible. If you can nick them off another club, all the better. I agree that in the event of even talent the local player should get priority - but the moment one player is even 1% better he deserves teh spot. That's why Griffiths has a deal and Nikas doesn't. Having seen your NYL side three times this year, I never once saw a super standout player aside from Ryan. Certainly nothing like Danning and Grant last year (who stood out just about every single game). To make the step up from NYL to HAL you don't just have to be good - you have to be great.

#2) The main reason you're signin so much youth is that you have f**k all cap to spend. Look at who you've lost:
*Macallister
*Elrich
*Boogard
*Huke
*Crowell
*Travis
*Nikas
*Heffernan

Of those, the only ones who would've been on close to decent money would be Heffernan, Elrich, Travis and Macallister (whose wage became McBreen's anyway). The rest leave you with peanuts. It leaves you in quite the pickle, because it was clear last year that you needed an injection of quality, yet compared to several other clubs in the league you have f**k all cap space to spend in the off-season.

Arnold's take on it is pretty simple - he has 7 or 8 spots left. HE can't fill them all with quality because he's restrained by the cap. So instead of swapping like-for-like he's dividing what he has left of the cap rather unevenly. Fill much of it with young, cheap signings (Amini, Gallagher, Warren, Sainsbury), which means that he can make a small number of bigger-money first team signings (Rose, the supposed #10 he's looking at overseas, and maybe one more?) . I'd say the only player you've signed on an 'average' wage would be Griffiths - who effectively replaces Boogard.

I don't think he's "doing his mate a favour", as it makes sense in the circumstances. If he was doing his mate a favour he'd be picking more sensible players - like U20 Captain Sam Munro (who has played for our NYL side for two years and dominates each week, but can't get a look in as we have so much depth at CM).
It leaves you f**ked for depth, but that's no different to last year and will take a while to solve. That said - it's far from perfect. Signing Gallagher and Warren is insane. It makes absolutely no sense at all. As things stand, your squad is very lop-sided, and it's hard to see that being fixed with 2 more signings.

Still, Arnold has freed up a lot of cash. Recent years have proven the big $$ can get some great talent (Ifill, Hernandez, etc), so that's what you should expect. That said, he could totally blow that money, and it could be hilarious. LOLARNOLD

 

[kevrenor]

#1) A heap of people are whinging CCM are picking up other youth instead of theirs.
This is unfounded. Any club should get the best players possible. If you can nick them off another club, all the better. I agree that in the event of even talent the local player should get priority - but the moment one player is even 1% better he deserves teh spot. That's why Griffiths has a deal and Nikas doesn't. Having seen your NYL side three times this year, I never once saw a super standout player aside from Ryan. Certainly nothing like Danning and Grant last year (who stood out just about every single game). To make the step up from NYL to HAL you don't just have to be good - you have to be great...... <snipped>

Thought provoking post.

Can't say that I even remember Gallagher ... so that's not a good sign. Warren was Oz under 17 captain but we have others from that team in our youth too, and the two games I saw he either was pish or had a 2 shockers!  Sainbury was OK.

So Arnie, j'accuse!  Why aren't you picking our own if these aren't easily seen to be better ... Kalouris would have been better than Warren. Most of our youth are still eligible, but how many will stay if that is how they are treated?

As for the cap .. well rumours are we didn't spend it last season, so perhaps if he can spend it all, esp. with a marquee, this will not be an issue. That said I am one that believes we are truly cash-strapped.

 

[Jaza_SFC]

If Warren isn't as good as Gallagher you're in trouble. Gallagher is extremely lucky to have a first team deal. Iain Ramsay just won our NYL player of the year - he's worth an HAL deal - and unlikely to get it with us.

 

[GT]

I can not believe that you guys can not see what the hell is going on here.  Arnold, Moss and co look after there own, Sam Gallager and the rest etc etc are all there due to relationships and who is pushing for who. Manly players etc, ex joeys and so on. Look out there in the playimg fields and you will see 20 to 30 better players than those signed by CCM.
We had better players in the CCM youth team yet not one outfield player was signed. Watch the NSW premier league and see all the names that played here,evfen now have started to shine and in future where they will shine.
They dont need CCM to further there playing careers.
Australia's down fall in the future will be that they select players through there systems and for other reasons, other than performances.

Jaza, You seem to know what you are talking about players like Ramsey will just by pass and leave the country like others before and others in the future, these A- League teams can not see talent as they are not qualified to see them coming. Coaching abilities are the problem here in this country,not qualified enough or experienced to see characteristics of great young players that need a go to show there worth.

 

[GT]

And by the way i watched nearly all the Youth games this season for CCM as apposed to others on this forum that watched 6 games and think they know which players should have been signed.

 

[GT]

Most of our youth are still eligible, but how many will stay if that is how they are treated?

Good point Kev,

If any have a half a brain they will play elsewhere and CCM can use there locals and others from interstate AIS, NSWIS, Manly and Northern Spirit.

Watch these boys look at the NSW premier League reports and you wiill see a few are kicking big goals.

 

[elevated position]

Yes GT I noticed Mitchell Mallia scored a double on debut and it will be interesting to watch the PL season unfold. However unless the yoof league has become stronger than the PL the performances of all YL players will only be marginal and will be the death blow to some players with bigger opinions of themselves. The PL is full of such players.
GT one thing you must realise is that if the players are that good then if CCM does not pick them up then surely one of the other A League clubs will. So a player who is that promising will be earmarked by 3/4 clubs and thats not to mention the OS scouts that are all ways looking for talent, any of our guys been picked up??
Man U have a massive Academy but how many guys go through to the top,they even run their own scouting tournament throughout the world with the finals at their home ground (Sydney team Marconi won the Aus version and represented us over there last year)

 

[Nik Mrdjas Disco Bikkie]

I can not believe that you guys can not see what the hell is going on here.  Arnold, Moss and co look after there own, Sam Gallager and the rest etc etc are all there due to relationships and who is pushing for who. Manly players etc, ex joeys and so on.

Do you not think Lawrie did the same thing?
Hutch, Kwas, Spencer, Sully, Osman, Wilko, Petrie, Tomasevic were all ex Spirit, plus we've leaned towards Blacktown players in the past also, another club Lawrie is associated with. Coached obviously use their contacts to help them scout and sign players its only natural.

 

[Roy Law]

I have no idea of the qualities of Gallagher or Warren but I believe they are not midfield players? Panni Nikas' problem is that the Mariners are chock full of contracted midfielders - Porter, Amini, Bojic, Griffiths, Hutchinson, Lewis, McGlinchey and the mooted South American No.10; both Rose and Kwasnik can fill in there too. Two of this group are youth players, one already contracted and the other one of the brightest young stars on the local scene. Nikas would have to be really special to break into that group and probably isn't. Decent skills from what I saw but couldn't win a ball to save his life and not gifted with pace. Hope he has a good A league career but I doubt he will be a major influence anywhere.
My Man Utd supporting mate (that's Manly United BTW, apparently a very popular Northern Beaches joke) rates Gallagher as a decent prospect (and can only shake his head when I ask about Phil Moss...). So we could all be proved wrong about Arnie who as I have mentioned before doesn't have to jump very high to clear the bar that Lawrie left behind on the playing field.