"I for one welcome our insect overlords" - The Politics Thread

[pjennings]

It will happen - it will be announced in a pre-election budget next year along with the uses for the money saved - probably more housing and rent relief. Count on changes to negative gearing on multiple properties and also double-dipping on franking credits. Also changes to short stay accomodation.

Franking credits are no the bogey any more. People that were scared by the threat to them before now realise they never got them anyway - just FOMO.

Same with tax cuts as long as the 'middle class' get their tax cuts no one will care that those on higher scales above $150,000 don't get the vast bulk of the change. They will also see that the money saved will take pressure off interest rates.

 

[FFC Mariner]

absolutely gunna happen . but like guns in the USA .
the real deal is changes to negative gearing rules on housing

How many MP's have investment properties do you think? People are deluding themselves.

 

[Hello Sailor]

That last point is important. There’s a number of things that are the right thing to do but politically will cost too much limiting the overall good you can do or risking worse getting in.

I'm not so sure. If they tried to axe it and then tried to spin it then yes it would be a disaster for them. But if Albo was up front and said that he is axing them even though it means breaking an election promise and that he realises that some voters wont be happy, because of a. the cost of living, b. cost of housing, c. need to funnel revenue into defence because of regional instability etc. I think many will understand. The coalition spent huge amounts during the covid emergency and could be used as an example of Govts doing what needs to be done even though they be contrary to voter wishes. For me, I dont know why a Labor party ever agreed to such obscene largesse in the first place.

 

[Hello Sailor]

the real deal is changes to negative gearing rules on housing

and capital gains tax on investment properties.

 

[Insertnamehere]

How many MP's have investment properties do you think? People are deluding themselves.

Most of them

 

[Hello Sailor]

How many MP's have investment properties do you think? People are deluding themselves.

Many will, but there is a way around that. Grandfather the changes so that they only apply to new investment properties.. This also allays fears of pollies that it will lose them votes from investors

 

[Big Al]

It will happen - it will be announced in a pre-election budget next year along with the uses for the money saved - probably more housing and rent relief. Count on changes to negative gearing on multiple properties and also double-dipping on franking credits. Also changes to short stay accomodation.

Franking credits are no the bogey any more. People that were scared by the threat to them before now realise they never got them anyway - just FOMO.

Same with tax cuts as long as the 'middle class' get their tax cuts no one will care that those on higher scales above $150,000 don't get the vast bulk of the change. They will also see that the money saved will take pressure off interest rates.

Every single person with a superfund who invests in shares which is probably higher than 95% gets franking credits.

Every industry fund gets them. You just don’t see them. All you see is the investment return but that includes franking credits.

It’s tax that has already been paid and is just working its way to the eventual recipient.

Stop kidding yourselves it’s just rich people with Self Managed Funds. They just the examples used to convince you it’s a good idea.

 

[Big Al]

I have no problem with the ALP axing the stage three tax cuts. They are obscene. If you agree write to your local member and express your outrage.

This square is the average Australian salary – see how it compares to the size of planned tax cuts

The stage 3 tax cuts are too big to fit on a single screen. We had to get creative to put them into perspective.

www.abc.net.au

Had his chance when first got in and it was an option, most understood and was politically doable. Even expected.
He backed it as an election promise and he wouldn’t back down.

Now he would get punished for back tracking again (super took less than a yesr to try again and got caught out) and take money away from people in a cost of living crisis.

Chalmers has been very aggressive but if Albo does that it would be the nail in his coffin IMO. Chalmers is probably more your type of tax everyone type treasurer you seem to all want. But you forget this and any government don’t know how to manage the extra money. They won’t be building any houses. They are finding out how hard that is now. That and they are letting in more people than than they are building. Simple supply and demand issues. That’s without the cost of materials to build.

I think he already is in massive trouble and can’t afford any more controversy.

Capital gains discounts is not the issue. You need to have incentive for hard workers to be able to increase their wealth. Especially as pensions will be no longer in the future and are already poor.

What really needs fixing is the medicare levy but it’s probably to late. You could increase the Medicare levy while reducing income tax rates.

But now most gp’s charge fees and people now accept it andbany increase is just going to be held by the gp’s.

What is needed is a petrol and electricity policy. Everyone is struggling and we can’t not consume these items and are not responsible for the increases and interest rates won’t and can’t stop this. The only issue is Labor won’t do that for everyone only those getting government support. It needs to be more. This would be costly but also the type of response that people would appreciate and could be considered a cost of getting re- elected. They don’t just want to scrap in and be held hostage by independents. They will need majority to get Chalmers ridiculous super $3m tax in. Taxing unrealised gains should worry everyone. Once they get that crap into the system watch out because eventually we all get attacked.

To be fair it would be nice of Albo to do anything. He will flap his gums that cost of living is his no1 priority but does nothing. He is in a real fight now and whether you trust the media or not he has a perception problem

 

[Insertnamehere]

Had his chance when first got in and it was an option, most understood and was politically doable. Even expected.
He backed it as an election promise and he wouldn’t back down.

Now he would get punished for back tracking again (super took less than a yesr to try again and got caught out) and take money away from people in a cost of living crisis.

Chalmers has been very aggressive but if Albo does that it would be the nail in his coffin IMO. Chalmers is probably more your type of tax everyone type treasurer you seem to all want. But you forget this and any government don’t know how to manage the extra money. They won’t be building any houses. They are finding out how hard that is now. That and they are letting in more people than than they are building. Simple supply and demand issues. That’s without the cost of materials to build.

I think he already is in massive trouble and can’t afford any more controversy.

Capital gains discounts is not the issue. You need to have incentive for hard workers to be able to increase their wealth. Especially as pensions will be no longer in the future and are already poor.

What really needs fixing is the medicare levy but it’s probably to late. You could increase the Medicare levy while reducing income tax rates.

But now most gp’s charge fees and people now accept it andbany increase is just going to be held by the gp’s.

What is needed is a petrol and electricity policy. Everyone is struggling and we can’t not consume these items and are not responsible for the increases and interest rates won’t and can’t stop this. The only issue is Labor won’t do that for everyone only those getting government support. It needs to be more. This would be costly but also the type of response that people would appreciate and could be considered a cost of getting re- elected. They don’t just want to scrap in and be held hostage by independents. They will need majority to get Chalmers ridiculous super $3m tax in. Taxing unrealised gains should worry everyone. Once they get that crap into the system watch out because eventually we all get attacked.

To be fair it would be nice of Albo to do anything. He will flap his gums that cost of living is his no1 priority but does nothing. He is in a real fight now and whether you trust the media or not he has a perception problem

This labor govt won't do anything they didn't say they would. Even then what they done is the reject shop version of what people thought they'd do.

 

[Big Al]

This labor govt won't do anything they didn't say they would. Even then what they done is the reject shop version of what people thought they'd do.

They came for super straight away after promising they wouldn’t and got smacked down so they back tracked and promised they would do it next election but they have already been putting the legislation in place. But that’s the only thing they will try and that was a bad move (couldn’t help themselves). And has probably scared them off doing anything else

 

[FFC Mariner]

RBA chief threatening more rate rises.
Nail meet coffin

 

[pjennings]

Every single person with a superfund who invests in shares which is probably higher than 95% gets franking credits.

Every industry fund gets them. You just don’t see them. All you see is the investment return but that includes franking credits.

It’s tax that has already been paid and is just working its way to the eventual recipient.

Stop kidding yourselves it’s just rich people with Self Managed Funds. They just the examples used to convince you it’s a good idea.

I get that. But the double dipping is the problem.

 

[FFC Mariner]

I get that. But the double dipping is the problem.

You can't double dip on franking credits. That's not how they work.

 

[Insertnamehere]

They came for super straight away after promising they wouldn’t and got smacked down so they back tracked and promised they would do it next election but they have already been putting the legislation in place. But that’s the only thing they will try and that was a bad move (couldn’t help themselves). And has probably scared them off doing anything else

Want to be more specific?

 

[Big Al]

Want to be more specific?

Opposition accuses Labor of breaking election promise on potential superannuation changes

The federal Coalition takes aim at the government's decision to open a conversation about superannuation changes, with Treasurer Jim Chalmers saying Labor does not want to "revolutionise" the system but is open to tweaking it.

www.abc.net.au

Labor coped pressure in the election run up from Liberals saying they are after super after they went to previous election with the franking credits and CGT discount plans.

To keep there lead and not stuff up a certain victory Labor said “no changes” to super.

Less than 12 months in there were strong whispers about super changes. Then they announced the $3m super tax. That includes taxing unrealised gains (taxing a value not what you have sold - forcing sales).

Then when they came to the industry for discussion they ignored everyone. They didn’t and had no intention of listening.

They wanted to introduce during this term.

From AFR
Labor promised before the election not to change the taxation of superannuation. In a bid to head off allegations it had broken a promise, cabinet agreed on Tuesday for the new tax rate to begin on July 1, 2025.

The next election will be held by May 2025 at the latest.

“We’re putting forward this proposal today as something that we will legislate for this term, but something that won’t kick in until after the next election,” he said.


So they promised not to touch it. Went and did it and have been unwilling to listen to changes. They then have set the start date just after the next election to appear that it’s not a blown election promise but all the legislation is being introduced now. The formula is complicated and unfair (imo). The simple option is a straight 15% increase on income (realised) for balances over $3. Very simple to implement. People then will have the money to pay it.

Under the proposal you might have a commercial unit worth let’s say $4m. You have to pay the 30% on the $1m valuation over $3m. But you haven’t sold the unit. So where do you raise this money from?

You can’t easily sell a commercial unit and this just to meet a tax for a value. When you go to sell the unit prices fall to $3. You still owe the tax on that $4m valuation. There is no refunds for valuations dropping. It’s up only. There is a sort of credit so when it goes back up you don’t pay again until over $4m (bit technical)

If picked a share and it hit say $10 a share and it’s value at 30 June is $10m you have to pay the tax on the the $7m difference but the next day the company announces something bad and drops to $3 ($3m value) you still have to pay the tax on $7m you will be forced to sell at that low price to try cover the tax. You could end up going backwards. It means you can’t ride out that issue as you are forced to sell to meet the tax. Absolutely stupid plan.

 

[Insertnamehere]

Opposition accuses Labor of breaking election promise on potential superannuation changes

The federal Coalition takes aim at the government's decision to open a conversation about superannuation changes, with Treasurer Jim Chalmers saying Labor does not want to "revolutionise" the system but is open to tweaking it.

www.abc.net.au

Labor coped pressure in the election run up from Liberals saying they are after super after they went to previous election with the franking credits and CGT discount plans.

To keep there lead and not stuff up a certain victory Labor said “no changes” to super.

Less than 12 months in there were strong whispers about super changes. Then they announced the $3m super tax. That includes taxing unrealised gains (taxing a value not what you have sold - forcing sales).

Then when they came to the industry for discussion they ignored everyone. They didn’t and had no intention of listening.

They wanted to introduce during this term.

From AFR
Labor promised before the election not to change the taxation of superannuation. In a bid to head off allegations it had broken a promise, cabinet agreed on Tuesday for the new tax rate to begin on July 1, 2025.

The next election will be held by May 2025 at the latest.

“We’re putting forward this proposal today as something that we will legislate for this term, but something that won’t kick in until after the next election,” he said.


So they promised not to touch it. Went and did it and have been unwilling to listen to changes. They then have set the start date just after the next election to appear that it’s not a blown election promise but all the legislation is being introduced now. The formula is complicated and unfair (imo). The simple option is a straight 15% increase on income (realised) for balances over $3. Very simple to implement. People then will have the money to pay it.

Under the proposal you might have a commercial unit worth let’s say $4m. You have to pay the 30% on the $1m valuation over $3m. But you haven’t sold the unit. So where do you raise this money from?

You can’t easily sell a commercial unit and this just to meet a tax for a value. When you go to sell the unit prices fall to $3. You still owe the tax on that $4m valuation. There is no refunds for valuations dropping. It’s up only. There is a sort of credit so when it goes back up you don’t pay again until over $4m (bit technical)

If picked a share and it hit say $10 a share and it’s value at 30 June is $10m you have to pay the tax on the the $7m difference but the next day the company announces something bad and drops to $3 ($3m value) you still have to pay the tax on $7m you will be forced to sell at that low price to try cover the tax. You could end up going backwards. It means you can’t ride out that issue as you are forced to sell to meet the tax. Absolutely stupid plan.

And who voted with labor to legislate this?

 

[Big Al]

And who voted with labor to legislate this?

Draft legislation released last month. So still in the process.

Treasury Laws Amendment (Better Targeted Superannuation Concessions) Bill 2023 | Treasury.gov.au

The Government is consulting on the Treasury Laws Amendment (Better Targeted Superannuation Concessions) Bill 2023 (the Bill) and the Superannuation (Better Targeted Superannuation Concessions) Imposition Bill 2023, to enact changes to superannuation tax concessions announced in the 2023-24...

treasury.gov.au

 

[true believer]

How many MP's have investment properties do you think? People are deluding themselves.

Its has to happen .everyone knows it .
Unless you wany to make all housing purchases tax deductable ?

 

[Insertnamehere]

Draft legislation released last month. So still in the process.

Treasury Laws Amendment (Better Targeted Superannuation Concessions) Bill 2023 | Treasury.gov.au

The Government is consulting on the Treasury Laws Amendment (Better Targeted Superannuation Concessions) Bill 2023 (the Bill) and the Superannuation (Better Targeted Superannuation Concessions) Imposition Bill 2023, to enact changes to superannuation tax concessions announced in the 2023-24...

treasury.gov.au

DOA. Greens will want more, LNP won't agree with it.

 

[Big Al]

DOA. Greens will want more, LNP won't agree with it.

Yeah going to be interesting. Probably why they haven’t given any consideration to the industry comment’s because will be some deals done to get through.