Wk 12 Other Games

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

Yeah, but Duke's goal was a pretty clear push - and Evans put the whistle to his mouth immediately but changed his mind (you'll always get pulled up for that as a grassroots ref, and for good reason).

Can't complain about that offside - and if he's a few inches to the left, than can absolutely change the header he won. At least hawkeye shows it was definitely off.

Though offside might be better served if it was only the legs (unless they're doing a diving header or some such).

 

[Tevor]

Yep classic big club v's little club with key 50/50 calls going with the Drive Byes and I agree it was a great game and somewhat spoiled by Evans. I feel Dukes goal was one of those 50/50 calls and he finished it superbly. It was all the free kicks not awarded to the Nix which annoyed me, bit like in our game where Keogh should have been pinged however went Glory's way and they go and score in the next play. If the calls were more fair then it may have given the Nix the edge. Great game though for a lazy Monday night. Bozza is such a closet Drive Bye fan, he struggles to hide his bias towards them.

 

[turbo]

I feel Dukes goal was one of those 50/50 calls and he finished it superbly

My main objection to the offside (which was correct, I'm not disputing that) was the contrast between the marginal benefit and nature of the call contrasted against Duke obtaining an advantage by giving the player a bump as he jumped. It feels cruel to be talking about maybe 20cm when that benefit of the doubt went the other way up the other end.

 

[Ozhammer]

Methinks someone else is a massive Cat in the hat fan...

Oh, there’s no doubt about that Style....

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

My main objection to the offside (which was correct, I'm not disputing that) was the contrast between the marginal benefit and nature of the call contrasted against Duke obtaining an advantage by giving the player a bump as he jumped. It feels cruel to be talking about maybe 20cm when that benefit of the doubt went the other way up the other end.

Well, there's no 'doubt with the WP one....but for me, Duke's was a clear foul so yeah, you'd be feeling robbed when you lose one goal to a tight VAR call, but VAR did nothing up the other end.

 

[pjennings]

Well, there's no 'doubt with the WP one....but for me, Duke's was a clear foul so yeah, you'd be feeling robbed when you lose one goal to a tight VAR call, but VAR did nothing up the other end.

The VAR did nothing up the other end because that happens every game. Might not be to the laws of the game - but a field ref let's that go most of the time so it probably gets seen as not a clear and obvious error.

Now for the offside. Let the VAR make the call off a one time look at normal speed without the aid of additional lines. If it looks like offside then it is a clear and obvious error. That way anything close can't be overturned because it is not a clear and obvious error.

As for the disallowed goal yesterday, real time I thought he was offside from looking at the screen. If I can do that so can the VAR.

The media can then put in all the lines afterwards to dissect the decision if they want.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

The VAR did nothing up the other end because that happens every game. Might not be to the laws of the game - but a field ref let's that go most of the time so it probably gets seen as not a clear and obvious error.

Now for the offside. Let the VAR make the call off a one time look at normal speed without the aid of additional lines. If it looks like offside then it is a clear and obvious error. That way anything close can't be overturned because it is not a clear and obvious error.

As for the disallowed goal yesterday, real time I thought he was offside from looking at the screen. If I can do that so can the VAR.

The media can then put in all the lines afterwards to dissect the decision if they want.

Yeah, while I think it's a definite foul, I'm okay (maybe) with it not being C&O....although we've seen VAR intervene on those before.

As for the offside - you can't make a call with correction because it's just impossible from the angle. You need to be level to make any judgement.

Even being level you have issues such as flash-lag effect which are going to be more pronounced live due to things like frame rate and resolution.

C&O doesn't apply for offside - and the lines we get shown later are what the VAR drew up.

 

[pjennings]

Yeah, while I think it's a definite foul, I'm okay (maybe) with it not being C&O....although we've seen VAR intervene on those before.

As for the offside - you can't make a call with correction because it's just impossible from the angle. You need to be level to make any judgement.

Even being level you have issues such as flash-lag effect which are going to be more pronounced live due to things like frame rate and resolution.

C&O doesn't apply for offside - and the lines we get shown later are what the VAR drew up.

I know it doesn't - but it should. This is killing the game.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

I know it doesn't - but it should. This is killing the game.

what's clear and obvious?

How much offside would you need for that? I think offside does work better with no C&O (like ball out of play - 'it's only a little bit out' is still out). Same with offside....if you can prove he's off, then 'only a little bit off' isn't really a thing. But you have to be able to use the tools to overcome the technical limitations.

So, yeah, I think we can find a better balance - though it's the inconsistency for fouls that I still think is a bigger problem. Duke's goal - if that was the smaller club on the day, that would have been disallowed. If that was us last season, that gets disallowed (I actually think, aside from the Fielding/Ams clusterf**k, we're not copping it quite as hard from VAR as normal - because our profile has lifted - and we've probably even benefitted a couple of times from questionable/wrong VAR decisions or non-decisions)

The concern is how you build enough buffer in to account for movement between frames - that can introduce doubt and I'd love to have the confidence to say they'd be accounting for that - but I just don't. Though I think this would be offside for a few frames.

another thing - the attacking line seems to be drawn to the shoulder, not the upper arm, while the defending one goes to the upper arm. This actually makes it look slightly closer than it was.

I saw somebody suggest online - and I kind of agree - that perhaps the best way forwards is for the offside law to only apply to feet or legs (could have some clause about the upper body if, say, they're aerial - eg diving header).

Offside applying to any playable part of the body has always been the law - it just rarely came up before because in real time it's usually impossible to spot unless a leg is partially offside as well.

I know when I was AR, there was a lot of times when a striker would be standing with just his feet in his half, but leaning forwards over the line. I was ALWAYS worried about that - what was i going to do if the ball was sent through to him? Technically, that's offside - but whether I raise the flag or keep it down, I'm going to cop it (I'm not one of those refs who makes the easy decision - I'll make the hard call and let the consequences sort themselves out, which I know is often frowned upon) - fortunately that situation never came up; everytime he started the run too early, or moved back first. But jeez it made me nervous every time!

 

[pjennings]

what's clear and obvious?

As I said I thought that was offside watching in live on TV. I was sure it would be. That is clear and obvious. If you have a competent ref in there that is looking for the offside rather than enjoying the football then surely they would see it even without aids.

We have to take VAR out of the game as much as possible.

 

[style_cafe]

As I said I thought that was offside watching in live on TV. I was sure it would be. That is clear and obvious. If you have a competent ref in there that is looking for the offside rather than enjoying the football then surely they would see it even without aids.

We have to take VAR out of the game as much as possible.

A competent AR would have helped,but like us against Perf ,we didn`t have one either.
The VAR would have definitely shown that Keogh came from an offside position to receive the ball and was still offside when it was passed to him...

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

As I said I thought that was offside watching in live on TV.

No, you can't make that decision with accuracy. If you could, why would the AR bother remaining in line? May as well pull up a chair at halfway.

You got this one right - how many have you gotten wrong from your couch?

You can't seriously be trying to argue that parallax error isn't a concern