Western Sydney going ahead in 2013 (p2)

[marinermick]

It seems to me that Peter Turnbull sees the introduction of West Sydney as a reality, which it is, and is working to deal with it. Of course that course of action is a lot less effective than bitching and moaning on a website. :

Didn't I say this in my first post on this topic?

All I am arguing is that it is naive to think it won't impact on the Mariners.

 

[marinermick]

f**k this. I'm out. This is as much fun as a day in the dentist's chair.

C'mon Dibo, you work for the labor party. This is just your daily reality at the moment.

 

[scottmac]

Yes Adz, and what we see Peter Turnbull quoted in the paper is always reality and an accurate guage of what is really happening at the Mariners or what the staff have to deal with.

What else is he going to say in a public setting?

Definitley not the negtive shit you are saying. There's a difference between the truth and taking us all on a ghost train ride of bullshit where the club is going to go bankrupt because we miss out on ONE high profile youth player.

I dont think anyone believes this make things easier for the Mariners.

Unless the average age of the WS team is below 22 we will probably still see some great youngsters from WS come to the Mariners for game time. Maybe not the best of them but certianly some of them. We've been spoilt up untill now. Now we need to compete for them. Lets see whats happens.

 

[adz]

Didn't I say this in my first post on this topic?

All I am arguing is that it is naive to think it won't impact on the Mariners.

Nobody is arguing against this either, just that it won't be the end of the club.

Turnbull says it will impact us but we will deal with it. I choose to believe that over some random forum person who has a habit of posting hysterical, irrational, and often ridiculous and inaccurate posts predicting the end of the club.

*And then spitting the dummy, telling my to think for daring to ask a question, and carrying on with some nonsense about not being allowed to "be accurate with reality".

 

[Mumbles]

Unless the average age of the WS team is below 22 we will probably still see some great youngsters from WS come to the Mariners for game time. Maybe not the best of them but certianly some of them. We've been spoilt up untill now. Now we need to compete for them. Lets see whats happens.

A wild guess;
WS FC will split 50:50 youngsters to seasoned players (10 x U20's)
If they have a youth team - 20 x players most likely NSWIS
Women - NSWIS

1st year may drain the young player resource then gradually back to normal in yr 2 & 3

 

[marinermick]

The argument is not about numbers and participation rates Mumbles.

It is about the potential loss of an elite player that could have been sold for a six-figure sum. Players like these are few and far between.

And for a club that is hanging by a thread (clubs words not mine) that relies on player sales for survival the loss of one player could be enough to bankrupt it.

Call me negative all you like but this is the reality of the situation.

Now, of course this may not happen but it has to be acknowledged as a real threat. If acknowledged it can be acted upon.

Then again we can all live in a happy little bubble thinking the non-income generating COE (and will probably never break even as most of the income generating facilities have been removed from development appilications as posted by Adz) will be our saviour.

Oh that's right the Russians.

 

[adz]

I pick this option.

Then again we can all live in a happy little bubble thinking the non-income generating COE (and will probably never break even as most of the income generating facilities have been removed from development appilications as posted by Adz) will be our saviour.

But if in a couple of years (or sooner) the club falls in a heap because:
* half the COE hasn't been completed (with all the facilities planned)
* the Russians did't invest
* the Club can't sell a player it never got due to the inclusion of Western Sydney
* the accountant gave all the wrong advice

You can say "I told you so".

 

[marinermick]

Yeah, right Adz this is all about me saying "I told you so" if it happens.

I would just love that wouldn't I?

 

[adz]

I doubt it but I've been told not to assume what other people are thinking.

Some people give off the impression, by constantly hunting for bad news or ways of drawing links between random events and the club folding, that they would actually like it if it happened.

 

[Mumbles]

The argument is not about numbers and participation rates Mumbles.

It is about the potential loss of an elite player that could have been sold for a six-figure sum. Players like these are few and far between.

And for a club that is hanging by a thread (clubs words not mine) that relies on player sales for survival the loss of one player could be enough to bankrupt it.

Call me negative all you like but this is the reality of the situation.

Now, of course this may not happen but it has to be acknowledged as a real threat. If acknowledged it can be acted upon.

Then again we can all live in a happy little bubble thinking the non-income generating COE (and will probably never break even as most of the income generating facilities have been removed from development appilications as posted by Adz) will be our saviour.

Oh that's right the Russians.

I believe a lot of UK clubs make a good living out of producing quality young players for resale. Sheffield Utd springs to mind. And there's nothing wrong with that if it is a clearly communicated strategy. It may raise the clubs presence as a well defined pathway. Another good thing.
You can bank on regular sales of young talent if your producing them yourself rather than waiting for luck to knock on the door.

 

[adz]

Yeah, right Adz this is all about me saying "I told you so" if it happens.

I would just love that wouldn't I?

I know I already replied to this, but if it's not about saying I told you so, what is it about?

All I see is posts about doom and gloom, and no calls to action.

There is never anything like "we need to do something to fix this".

People are taking action based on this information by not renewing their memberships etc.

Don't forget these are just rumours and predictions, but anyone who disagrees gets shot down because apparently something that might happen in the future is "reality".

So... what IS the point of spreading rumours about the impending demise of the club?

 

[Forum Phoenix]

We are getting pretty heavily polarised on this.

Surely everyone has no problem accepting this will have an impact on our junior player recruitment pool and no one wants a potential loss of revenue. But surely it can also be accepted that in terms of lost revenue or club crippling potential, this is purely a hypothetical at this point and certainly the very worst of an unlikely worst case scenario.

Going from the responses it's drawn, it's obviously coming across as pessimism as opposed to realism.

Do we really need to be divided into two camps of happy bubble land and the doomsayers? Doesn't really do any of us credit.

On the issue in question, with our reputation of promoting youth and COE/vision - it is also surely fair to say we will be very competitive in continuing to secure youngsters. So it seems to me unlikely given this that our future is in any real jeopardy. However I think it's a valid concern and I'm glad Mr Turnbull has stated they are aware of it and intend to be proactive about it.

As to the future of our club. I think it's quite reasonable to see our clubs future as looking very bright not dark.

Everything can fail, but the COE is without shadow of doubt a major positive for our club and is intended as a source of revenue.
We are unique and leading the pack in this and other areas also.

We have been working very hard on securing new investors and by all reports are very close.

The new TV deal and FFA intent looks to position all clubs better than they have ever been before.

A club can always do with more fans, but our community is engaged and does love the Mariners.

And last but far from least, OUR SUCCESS. Two years in Asia, and premiers, at the very least means for the FFA to let us die would any time soon would be tantamount to throwing in the A league towel all together.

MUCH to be upbeat about. And WS is far more exciting for the league than GCU could ever be.
Really it's a pretty exciting turn for the HAL, which will generate a lot of interest, extra crowds, derbies etc and on all that spells good for us too...

So come on. We all bleed yellow. Let's smoke a peace pipe or two.

We just won the plate and we're not out of the hunt for the toilet seat yet either!

United we stand. Divided we fall.

Come on YELLLOW!!!



verhead:

 

[Nathan Byrn]

Good link, I missed this one, kinda goes against what you're arguing though doesn't it?

hint:
Mariners not afraid of fight for top talent





So... Turnbull says we can still compete for kids in Western Sydney. We can also recruit from other areas, including the Central Coast.

But that's not accurate or reality.

We're all doomed!

The word FIGHT has a different meaning for you?

 

[adz]

The word FIGHT has a different meaning for you?

Different meaning than what? You've given me nothing to compare it to.

 

[Nathan Byrn]

In the past we have not had to fight for players. Just a piece of paper that they happily sign.

 

[adz]

In the past we have not had to fight for players. Just a piece of paper that they happily sign.

Who's being naive now?

 

[marinermick]

Good post Forum Phoenix.

One question though - which part of the COE will be income generating?

 

[adz]

Futsal courts (Soccer5s)
Offices
Function, event and reception centre
Gym and fitness centre
Pool and hydrotherapy centre
Licensed club
Hotel/accommodation (132 guest rooms)

 

[marinermick]

My question was to Forum Phoenix but here goes:
- Soccer 5s rent is paid two years in advance as part of their sponsorship deal
- Offices will be predominantly Mariners. They now get free rent from Wyong Coucil and Energy Australia. The extra rent at COE will be chewed up with maintenance, electricity.
- function, event centre and reception are now not being built
- gym and fitness centre when coupled with:
- pool and hydrotherapy centre do not make money. Only one in a hundred do in fact due to the extraordinary maintenance cost of pools
- licensed clubs of that size lose money and this is why so many are closing down and the Mariners are negotiating with groups to unload the club
- the Mariners cannot find a hotel group interested in the site

So, in essence the only thing that will generate profits is Soccer 5s (in two years time) and this revenue will not be enough to cover the maintenance costs of the whole complex.

I cannot think of many sporting complexes in Australia that generate wads of cash. The majority actually run at a loss.

Just have a look at what is happening at the Titans,

 

[Nathan Byrn]

And we can all enjoy the Riverstone development for some fun hey!!!
What company was involved with that..?

The federal govt pulled the 8 mill from that to focus on ParkLea