WC 2010 squad

[Forum Phoenix]

I agree with Serious that the first game is going to be most crucial to us.
Not just in points but in confidence. Get a result against the Germans and I can see us going on to beat Ghana and then while I also think still likely losing to Serbia - we may get a draw but even if we lose to them - we could still possibly top our group if a now desperate German side in turn scalps the Serbians.

Top our group and we very likely get the USA and a chance to progress to the dream stages where anything can happen.

Thats my plan. And I'm sticking to it. (I've cc'd Pim) 

Speaking of which...

With Pimball I understand. But really its just that 4231's are painful period, every division the world bloody over.

I don't think the Aussie fan base and most of the media are being fair or showing vision. I don't believe Pim would play 4231 if he was coaching Spain, Brazil or many other countries with far superior striking stocks.

It's not Pims style of play. It's in his professional opinion the style of play with the level of Australian players available, that he believes most likely to give us a chance of success at the WC.

I know it's painful, and I've screamed from my chair my disgust at 4231, but Pim's rationale has always made sense...  He simply doesn't believe we can mix it with the stronger nations as a 442, and believes that our midfield will not stand up and it won;t matter if we have two strikers because we'll be over run in the mids anyway and lose the game from there. And while its admittedly bloody hard to watch, I think he could well be right.

But things from a fans perspective could well be about to brighten up a bit...

The truth of a 4231 from a fans perspective is that when you are playing NZ or Uzbekistan you want to see the Aussies put them to the sword and anything less feels immensely disappointing.  However holding out against Germany and then Holman nicking a winning goal in the last seconds would have us all giddy beyond belief with joy.

In the face of significant criticism, to prepare us, Pim has stuck to his guns where many might have crumbled and endeavoured to play the whole time how he believes we need to shape up if we are to be successful at the WC.

That takes some balls and thats something at international level you need if you hope to succeed. And familiarity with a style of play and shape should not be under estimated for its worth.

So personally I still have some faith while many seem to be bemoaning our demise already. F**k that.

Dibo, I also disagree with you that our squad is weak, in the sense that there could have been many other inclusions that would have significantly altered it. Only real one for me is Moore. Always much rather have had Oganovski or from many reports Bosnar - and I think aerially and physically against NZ it showed as a big case in point and so what the big serbs may likey do to us doesn't bare much thinking about. Still Meggsy was good, so lets all hope he has a shining WC. We need him to!

Also as to the Macdonald cut proving that Pim tactically is incapable of change, and will only chase a game with a lone striker that many people around the traps are professing, its just bullshit. It proves nothing. Second half, chasing a game against the kiwis saw closer to a 442. And with Kennedy, Ruka and Harry, we still have Cahill, Vidosic, Garcia and Chippers who could all move further up if tactically required. I hope the other coaches are as gullible and simplistic in their assessment of our capabilities tactically as all the twats on 442 whose posts I've been reading.

Chin up and FIRE UP!!!

ITS A BLOODY WORLD CUP AND WE'RE IN IT!!!!!!

verhead: verhead: verhead: verhead: verhead: verhead: irate: irate: irate: irate: irate: irate: irate: irate: irate:

 

[jarrad]

+1 Have put a tenna on us to win it all. - $67 to the dollar. WOOOOO!

 

[jarrad]

I think the football gods want us to progress. Afterall, they have knocked out two influential figures (funnily enough both Chelsea players) in our group stage. Michael Ballack and Michael Essien will play no part in this years world cup. Now we just need someone like Vidic gone and surely we're through...

 

[dibo]

Phoenix- Chelsea play a 4-2-3-1 and score shitloads of goals. Just saying...

 

[Deej]

Phoenix- Chelsea play a 4-2-3-1 and score shitloads of goals. Just saying...

Chelsea also have Drogba, not Kennedy up front.......just saying

 

[dibo]

Phoenix- Chelsea play a 4-2-3-1 and score shitloads of goals. Just saying...

Chelsea also have Drogba, not Kennedy up front.......just saying

Indeed. It's not the formation, it's the personnel. We're not just struggling with strikers though. We've got exactly two players who are any sort of consistent threat going forward - Kewell (when fit) and Cahill. We need more players to step up.

Bresciano *needs* to be in some sort of form, and then we need a striker (or LM if Kewell goes to the point of the attack). Our fullbacks need to be able to deliver incisive balls as well rather than just win us the occasional throw-in and the rest of the time just send it out for goal kicks.

Culina has some spark, he might be an option to be pushed forward (not ideal, but we're really scratching around here).

On apparent form (i.e. one friendly and what they're reouted to have done this season for their clubs) you could maybe look at:

              Schwarzer
Wilkshire Neill Meggsy Carney
            Mile Grella
    Culina Cahill Bresciano
              Kewell

On club rep and never being injured etc. you'd have Holman rather than Bresciano for a burst of pure energy and clumsiness, but I'd prefer Bresciano...

The attacking three are meant to rotate around and be flexible and creative - go where they think they can cause trouble.

The striker *shouldn't* be a one out player getting monstered (unless like Drogba they're a sheer force of nature and can play that) - they should be a player who comes to the ball and draws the defence out of shape with pace and creates space behind himself for other runs or aims to receive angled balls.

With Scotty Mac we did try this on Monday, we were just woeful at it. Needs short, sharp, angled balls, not 40m hoofed rockets from centre-back. The goals should be shared around a fair bit too.

Long story short, it's not the formation, it's who we put in it and the execution that is the problem. It can be a devastatingly effective setup that generates goals from many potential sources and collapses down to a compact and simple defensive setup.

That doesn't begin to touch our issues at the back though. Our back four had better be more aware and, well... sensible than on Monday night. Mark up FFS. Track runners. Once we get the ball, play early. If it has to be a long ball, play a smart one, not a flat drive at a leprechaun standing among giants.

But our personnel are old or just not that good. We look technically deficient (judging by the *ordinary* standard of basic passing and control the other night) and more worryingly we look tactically wishy-washy. We're just not a very good team a the moment, with a coach who's doing all he can but I'm not sure he can get us beyond our basic failings.

 

[Kareem]

4-2-3-1 can be very very attacking

Valencia, Bayern Munich (arguably a 4-4-2, but trust me Mueller plays more of a cahill role as opposed to striker).
Liverpool used to, and still sort of do...but nowhere near as good in the past 12 months tbh
I think Lyon do
I would Even  argue that IMO Inter does...and they are only negative half the time

But fact of the matter is we do play a very negative 4-2-3-1...but only because Pim chooses to!

Edit: If I recall the 4-2-3-1 was the 2nd most used formation out of the 32 teams in the group stages of the Champions League...after 4-3-3

 

[Kareem]

ps. My u14c's team play with a 4-2-3-1...and trust me its very attacking
(Our only issue atm is our defensive fraility...but our attack is just fine )
/end thread


on a serious note: a lot of the time it depends on the managers tactical use of the formation more than the formation itself...

 

[scottmac]

We've got exactly two players who are any sort of consistent threat going forward - Kewell (when fit) and Cahill. We need more players to step up.

Wilkshire has been the spark of many of Australia's goals throughout the qualifing campaign and before he was injured Emerton was scoring. These two plus the two you mentioned are the roos capable of igniting our side. If any of the others (Bresc, Vidosic, Culina, Holman, Carney, Kennedy)  chime in aswell, then we could be in for a fairly decent shot at round of 16.

 

[FFC Mariner]

Ratboy............must play every game.

 

[marinermick]

Ratboy............must play every game.

this

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Dibo, Chelsea were playing 433 with Malouda and cole supporting Drogba the last few games I watched them play. Including when they beat us at home. Earlier they had Kalou and Anelka in for Cole and Malouda. I very rarely miss a game. During the course of the season they played a 4-4-2 diamond, a standard 4-3-3, and yes a 4-3-2-1, and a 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1.

But in any case using Chelsea as an argument that 4231 is an attacking formation does about as much for me as my 14c' or dads second cousins team :
Of course a 4231 can be more "attacking" pending on the skill of the personnel available, but by any reasonable assessment it is not classed as an attacking formation.

As to Australia's personnel and attack. I wouldn't be leaving Chippers out of the starting 11 especially if we're after goals. He's been playing and scoring more consistently than pretty much anyone else for Basel and still offers more than Carney in either an offensive or defensive capacity.

 

[happy]

Several German papers write that it is likely that Vidosic will not be nominated for the WC squad. Any news on that?

 

[marinermick]

Several German papers write that it is likely that Vidosic will not be nominated for the WC squad. Any news on that?

current word out of the locals papers is that himself and shane lowry will miss out

did not give a reason

 

[Tassiemariner]

galekovic, lowry, oar, holland and vidosic to miss out.
sounds about right.

 

[FFC Mariner]

Poor Judas...........shame

 

[pjennings]

Lowry and Williams are the last two cut.

 

[scottmac]

Lowry and Williams are the last two cut.

devastated, Williams is much more usefull than milligan. Really don't understand that one. Unless he is injured.

 

[bulldogmariner]

Lowry and Williams are the last two cut.

devastated, Williams is much more usefull than milligan. Really don't understand that one. Unless he is injured.

Understand that this is the case. Has been struggling with injury for the better part of 4 months.

 

[kevrenor]

Lowry and Williams are the last two cut.

devastated, Williams is much more usefull than milligan. Really don't understand that one. Unless he is injured.

SMH: "Socceroos coach Pim Verbeek has cut five players - Rhys Williams, Shane Lowry, Tommy Oar, James Holland and Eugene Galekovic - from his final World Cup squad".

Verbeek said Middlesbrough defender Williams had an injury and would immediately return home to England.

The other four players will remain with the 23-man squad in South Africa for the remainder of the tournament"

Hmmm ... very light on for strikers but good to see Vidosic and Rukavytsya in.