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The Middle East Thread

dibo

Well-Known Member
i just deleted a few posts out of here that contributed less than nothing and were bordering on inflammatory.

this thread is one which deals with a pretty sensitive topic with strongly held views on all sides. the moderators are continuing to watch the thread closely. posters are free to disagree with one another and express their views, even in strong terms, but should in all cases respect others' views.

do not use this thread as a place to make a dick of yourself, you'll likely be made an example of instead.
 

serious14

Well-Known Member
Dibo - fair enough.  But I re-iterate my point that this can be a thread for all things Middle East, not just the current situation.  I hear Dubai and Abu Dhabi are a rockin' these days.  ;)
 

serious14

Well-Known Member
forzamariners said:
do want to go to dubai one day whilst im young

Can go and get your photo taken roughly where Tamworth would be in the "World" developement bit.  ;)

Interesting that the AFC gave the sole hosting rights of the 2011 Asia Cup to Qatar.  They have one stadium of 50 000, and a couple around the 20 - 25 000 mark.  I know it's probably enough, considering it's a 16 team comp. and not 32, but the real economic action (and let's face it, that's what a lot of these sorts of footballing decisions are based on these days) is a bit further down the Gulf in UAE land.
 

Kareem

Well-Known Member
Ranyen said:
I am tolerant of any religion, everyone is entitled to their own thoughts & beliefs, however killing in the name of "GOD" is just wrong. If you believe in "GOD" then it should be "GODs" job to make somebody die if they "deserved" it? You can't go & blow up a bus & say, the people that actually died from the blast deserved to die, whereas the ones that actually survived didn't deserve to.

I'm quite a peaceful person, and would rather ignore somebody if they didn't share the same thoughts & beliefs with me, instead of killing them.
its sad the way things can be miscontstrued
a few individuals minsterpet (how- i have no idea) and clearly breaking Islamic rules of war (of which civillians are not liable to war attacks)
Killing in the name of God- in a war situation- ie. a battle. You know like back in old days swords, archers etc.- that is IMHO fair enough (NB: a lot of bias there)- but its war, with both sides prepared and focused on a fight
NB: I am not claiming current proceedings to be at all that type of war-just giving a reason why any1 would kill in the name of God.
 

Auburn Mariner

Well-Known Member
I watched "Crimson Tide" for the 20th time on the weekend.

Denzel Washington's character:

"In my opinion, in the nuclear age, the true enemy is war itself".

I do not have the answer to the problems in the Middle East, but rest assured Hamas will keep on going, and Israel will keep on showing strength and an absolute unwillingness to EVER back down.

Sorry, but the loss of life is awful, and not necessary. Too many Muslims, Jews, Palestinians, Israelis, HUMANS are dying or being maimed (I found the phosphoric cluster bombs abominable).

It's times like these I'm grateful I am an Australian.

RIP to all those who have lost their lives in this latest, fruitless, vicious conflict.
 

Redline

Well-Known Member
As much as this country frustrates me, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

And speaking of other things Middle East...Dubai has the biggest INDOOR ski resort in the world...probably the only one too! It's a plce I'd love to be cashed up enough to go to and really enjoy and get the benefit out of it.
 

marinermick

Well-Known Member
Countryhick said:
As much as this country frustrates me, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

And speaking of other things Middle East...Dubai has the biggest INDOOR ski resort in the world...probably the only one too! It's a plce I'd love to be cashed up enough to go to and really enjoy and get the benefit out of it.

trent (who does radio with us) learnt to snowboard in dubai when he was there for work

pretty funny when you think about it
 

Redline

Well-Known Member
marinermick said:
Countryhick said:
As much as this country frustrates me, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

And speaking of other things Middle East...Dubai has the biggest INDOOR ski resort in the world...probably the only one too! It's a plce I'd love to be cashed up enough to go to and really enjoy and get the benefit out of it.

trent (who does radio with us) learnt to snowboard in dubai when he was there for work

pretty funny when you think about it

That is AWESOME. Learnt to snowboard, in a country dominated by sand. lol.
 

tuftman

Well-Known Member
Countryhick said:
marinermick said:
Countryhick said:
As much as this country frustrates me, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

And speaking of other things Middle East...Dubai has the biggest INDOOR ski resort in the world...probably the only one too! It's a plce I'd love to be cashed up enough to go to and really enjoy and get the benefit out of it.

trent (who does radio with us) learnt to snowboard in dubai when he was there for work

pretty funny when you think about it

That is AWESOME. Learnt to snowboard, in a country dominated by sand. lol.

Imagine telling that to your mates "Yeah, I can snowboard...Learnt it in Dubai"

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231424929382&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Explains Egypts plight in the Gaza conflict. It seems a delicately balanced one which they seemingly didnt really want to be a part of, and explains why they are pushing for a ceasefire
 

serious14

Well-Known Member
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/13/israel.gaza/index.html

GAZA CITY, Gaza (CNN) -- Sporadic fighting continued late into the night Tuesday in Gaza as Israeli troops continued to push into Gaza City. Meanwhile, international efforts to bring an end to the fighting ramped up with the United Nations secretary-general on his way to the region.
A young Palestinian stands Tuesday amid a wedding hall destroyed during Israeli strikes in Gaza City.

Palestinian medical sources said 47 people had been killed since midnight Monday, bringing the death toll in Gaza to 971 since Israel began its offensive 18 days ago. Among them, 311 were children, 13 were medics and four were members of the local media, the sources said.


Interesting that the UN are finally going to put across the perception that they're interested in doing something about it, as opposed to just sitting around talking.
 
W

Wilson

Guest
It is interesting to also note that the Us were the only nation that abstained from voting in order for it to be heard in congress. Bush and Cheney at it again! The Zionists are running the world.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/09/gaza-us-security-council-abstention

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3806520899685967603

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eustace_Mullins
 

serious14

Well-Known Member
Wilson said:
he Zionists are running the world.

Not to say I don't agree, but please don't get the thread deleted - it has potential for proper discussion of not only the conflict, but the area in general y'know??
 
W

Wilson

Guest
Fair enough. Sorry. But the area cannot be discussed without the real motivations behind the war..Anyway..
 
W

Wilson

Guest
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE50C4DH20090114

The latest on the political front
 
W

Wilson

Guest
Plenty of job opportunities over there.

https://app.mpri.com/IIF/jobs/jobsummary.html
 
W

Wilson

Guest
Latest up date

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=82287&sectionid=351020202
 

serious14

Well-Known Member
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fiskrsquos-world-when-it-comes-to-gaza-leave-the-second-world-war-out-of-it-1418270.html

Exaggeration always gets my goat. I started to hate it back in the 1970s when the Provisional IRA claimed that Long Kesh internment camp was "worse than Belsen". It wasn't as if there was anything nice about Long Kesh or the Maze prison as it was later politely dubbed but it simply wasn't as bad as Belsen. And now we're off again. Passing through Paris this week, I found pro-Palestinian demonstrators carrying signs which read "Gaza, it's Guernica" and "Gaza-sur-Glane".

Guernica, as we all know, was the Basque city razed by the Luftwaffe in 1937 and Oradour-sur-Glane the French village whose occupants were murdered by the SS in 1944. Israel's savagery in Gaza has also been compared to a "genocide" and of course a "holocaust". The French Union of Islamic Organisations called it "a genocide without precedent" which does take the biscuit when even the Pope's "minister for peace and justice" has compared Gaza to "a big concentration camp".

Before I state the obvious, I only wish the French Union of Islamic Organisations would call the Armenian genocide a genocide it doesn't have the courage to do so, does it, because that would be offensive to the Turks and, well, the million and a half Armenians massacred in 1915 happened to be, er, Christians.

Mind you, that didn't stop George Bush from dropping the word from his vocabulary lest he, too, should offend the Turkish generals whose airbases America needs for its continuing campaign in Iraq. And even Israel doesn't use the word "genocide" about the Armenians lest it loses its only Muslim ally in the Middle East. Strange, isn't it? When there's a real genocide of Armenians we don't like to use the word. But when there is no genocide, everyone wants to get in on the act.

Yes, I know what all these people are trying to do: make a direct connection between Israel and Hitler's Germany. And in several radio interviews this past week, I've heard a good deal of condemnation about such comparisons. How do Holocaust survivors in Israel feel about being called Nazis? How can anyone compare the Israeli army to the Wehrmacht? Merely to make such a parallel is an act of anti-Semitism.

Having come under fire from the Israeli army on many occasions, I'm not sure that's necessarily true. I've never understood why strafing the roads of northern France in 1940 was a war crime while strafing the roads of southern Lebanon is not a war crime. The massacre of up to 1,700 Palestinians in the Sabra and Chatila camps perpetrated by Israel's Lebanese Phalangist allies while Israeli soldiers watched and did nothing falls pretty much into the Second World War bracket. Israel's own estimate of the dead a paltry 460 was only nine fewer than the Nazi massacre at the Czech village of Lidice in 1942 when almost 300 women and children were also sent to Ravensbrck (a real concentration camp). Lidice was destroyed in revenge for the murder by Allied agents of Reinhard Heydrich. The Palestinians were slaughtered after Ariel Sharon told the world untruthfully that a Palestinian had murdered the Lebanese Phalangist leader Bashir Gemayel.

Indeed, it was the courageous Professor Yeshayahu Leibovitz of the Hebrew University (and editor of the Encyclopaedia Hebraica) who wrote that the Sabra and Chatila massacre "was done by us. The Phalangists are our mercenaries, exactly as the Ukrainians and the Croatians and the Slovakians were the mercenaries of Hitler, who organised them as soldiers to do the work for him. Even so have we organised the assassins of Lebanon in order to murder the Palestinians". Remarks like these were greeted by Israel's then minister of interior and religious affairs, Yosef Burg, with the imperishable words: "Christians killed Muslims how are the Jews guilty?"

I have long raged against any comparisons with the Second World War whether of the Arafat-is-Hitler variety once deployed by Menachem Begin or of the anti-war-demonstrators-are-1930s-appeasers, most recently used by George Bush and Lord Blair of Kut al-Amara. And pro-Palestinian marchers should think twice before they start waffling about genocide when the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem once shook Hitler's hand and said in Berlin on 2 November 1943, to be precise "The Germans know how to get rid of the Jews... They have definitely solved the Jewish problem." The Grand Mufti, it need hardly be added, was a Palestinian. He lies today in a shabby grave about two miles from my Beirut home.

No, the real reason why "Gaza-Genocide" is a dangerous parallel is because it is not true. Gaza's one and a half million refugees are treated outrageously enough, but they are not being herded into gas chambers or forced on death marches. That the Israeli army is a rabble is not in question though I was amused to read one of Newsweek's regular correspondents calling it "splendid" last week but that does not mean they are all war criminals. The issue, surely, is that war crimes do appear to have been committed in Gaza. Firing at UN schools is a criminal act. It breaks every International Red Cross protocol. There is no excuse for the killing of so many women and children.

I should add that I had a sneaking sympathy for the Syrian foreign minister who this week asked why a whole international tribunal has been set up in the Hague to investigate the murder of one man Lebanese ex-prime minister Rafiq Hariri while no such tribunal is set up to investigate the deaths of more than 1,000 Palestinians.

I should add, however, that the Hague tribunal may well be pointing the finger at Syria and I would still like to see a tribunal set up into the Syrian massacre at Hama in 1982 when thousands of civilians were shot at the hands of Rifaat al-Assad's special forces. The aforesaid Rifaat, I should add, today lives safely within the European Union. And how about a trial for the Israeli artillerymen who massacred 106 civilians more than half of them children at the UN base at Qana in 1996?

What this is really about is international law. It's about accountability. It's about justice something the Palestinians have never received and it's about bringing criminals to trial. Arab war criminals, Israeli war criminals the whole lot. And don't say it cannot be done. Wasn't that the message behind the Yugoslav tribunal? Didn't some of the murderers get their just deserts? Just leave the Second World War out of it.
 

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