Sydney vs. Melbourne

[Part_Timer]

your right i dont understand how a team in terrible form can finish 6th out of 10 teams get the luck of the draw and jam a win and be called CHAMPIONS ......

 

[FFC Mariner]

Replace Teleshite with Murdoch press and it would be more accurate.

Finals are simply an anathema (Dibo, spelling) to most football fans who have come to Australia from all over the world.

The level of hype that Fox gave the SFC/Melb game yesterday was appropriate for a title decider - are they going to repeat it 2 (possibly 3) times?

Sort of loses its impact doesnt it

 

[MagpieMariner]

And just how often does this happen?
4 seasons of HAL the GF winner has been 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 1st.
On form I'd be prepared to make a small wager that this year won't be any different.

 

[FFC Mariner]

Sorta means that in football, the best team wins the league because they are the best team.

You put forward a fairly convincing arguement against the finals concept in our game

 

[MagpieMariner]

Finals are simply an anathema (Dibo, spelling) to most football fans who have come to Australia from all over the world.

This is the point isn't it?
The Australian way isn't popular with those who come here from elsewhere.
Why should we change our way to suit? If you don't like it, don't follow it. I don't like the European/UK way where you can have a situation where the champion is decided weeks out from the end of the season (HAL v2 from memory, but I could be wrong). to me that is dead boring, but that's their way. I don't like it so I don't follow it, I don't keep writing raves how it should be changed to the Australian way. If I were to go to UK or Europe to live I would accept that's the way it's done there and I'd ignore it and follow a sport that did have finals.
If you don't accept that the winner of the grand final is the champion, then why do you give a shit. You will have it that FC is Champion no matter what happens over the next few weeks. That's cool, I don't have a problem with that. Sydney have proved themselves the best team over the season.
What I have a problem with is people who don't like the finals concept trying to take away the pleasure from the people who do like the finals concept. Fortunately the FFA understand the Australian way and they also understand that the finals will attract crowds that the regular matches won't. Has a match between CCM and Scum ever got 35K before or since the grand final?

 

[MagpieMariner]

Sorta means that in football, the best team wins the league because they are the best team.

You put forward a fairly convincing arguement against the finals concept in our game

I don't think so. The big crowds still go because they like the finals. It's a case of find out what your customers want and give it to them. In this case it's finals.

 

[FFC Mariner]

Changing the subj, lol at the Tweets from the Tards asking hteir fans to stand up in the face of riot police provocation yesterday

Next game at SFS should be fun

CoF's away day crew might have a bit of this one

 

[Arabmariner]

Sorta means that in football, the best team wins the league because they are the best team.

You put forward a fairly convincing arguement against the finals concept in our game

I don't think so. The big crowds still go because they like the finals. It's a case of find out what your customers want and give it to them. In this case it's finals.

There's the problem........we're not fans we're customers and it's not a game anymore it's a product  ???

Australian way,european way,what's traditional,what's not ?.........I really don't give a f**k other than I prefer to see a fair competition with the best team being crowned champs at the end.

That's what happens with first past the post.

 

[curious]

I see the point you're making, but my belief is that we inherited the game from Europe, we have all the same game rules, why not have the same competition format? It's the fairest way to organise it.

Good to see some close-ups of the scuffle in Melbourne's bay- I was right at the other end of the ground so didn't have the best view.

We inherited a lot from England including our language, but we soon put a stop the method used by the English to speak it and found our own.

TBH the baby is one f**klng ugly kid.

However, it is 'our' ugly kid.

Finals are simply an anathema (Dibo, spelling) to most football fans who have come to Australia from all over the world.

Was waiting for that to show it's nose around the corner. Felt it's been on the tip of your tongue for ages. 
You see, that's a weird thing about a developed culture, isn't it? Why the hell Australians bother with Australian traditions is quite silly really, when we all know Australians shouldn't worry about Australian traditions and should avoid the development of said traditions in preference to the latest set of practices that are not an anathema to people that come to Australia from all over the world. We have been rather rude and inconsiderate 

Then, maybe they would have less bloody things to whinge about and we could save dollars on Panadol. See, everyone wins 

Seems you don't understand the Australian psych as yet, FFC. Tell us to do something and we will do the opposite to spite the order. Tell us to do something because the English do it, we will 'moon' you and then do the opposite whilst in hysterical laughter at the suggestion.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Fortunately the FFA understand... that the finals will attract crowds that the regular matches won't. Has a match between CCM and Scum ever got 35K before or since the grand final?

Very valid point. I still believe first past the post is the greater achievement, but personally I'm happy to see as many games as possible - so a few more - with the added tension of "knockout" is something I also enjoy. I have no problem seeing both for what they are and enjoying them.

 

[midfielder]

Interesting the game made the UK papers from the Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/14/sydneyfc

 

[serious14]

Interesting the game made the UK papers from the Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/14/sydneyfc

"Sydney FC won the A-League title".

Says it all right there.

 

[Jerem]

FFC just a clarify, Terrorgraph IS murdoch press, i tink your thinkin of Fairfax

 

[Jerem]

FP, that 35k creates a good vibe for the game in this country too, adding to its positive promotion to the youngns, having more than 25k is impressive for football so having passionate fans
i think the node" any publicity is good publicity" tends to fit nicely here

 

[MagpieMariner]

Interesting the game made the UK papers from the Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/14/sydneyfc

"Sydney FC won the A-League title".

Says it all right there.

I agree with this point. Yes Sydney have won the A-league title. I have no problem with this.
My problem is our finals being sneered at, being criticised for supposedly copying the Americans with their Superbowl system, then being urged to copy a different system, also from overseas.

Don't like the finals? Fine, nobody's forcing you to. So don't try to force the rest of us who do like the finals to accept your point of view. It ain't gonna work, it'll just piss people off (don't you know that already ).

 

[fedelta]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWZvnfroZlk

fkn lol 0:59 seconds at the cop falling over the fence

 

[MagpieMariner]

Sorta means that in football, the best team wins the league because they are the best team.

You put forward a fairly convincing arguement against the finals concept in our game

I don't think so. The big crowds still go because they like the finals. It's a case of find out what your customers want and give it to them. In this case it's finals.

There's the problem........we're not fans we're customers and it's not a game anymore it's a product  ???

Australian way,european way,what's traditional,what's not ?.........I really don't give a f**k other than I prefer to see a fair competition with the best team being crowned champs at the end.

That's what happens with first past the post.

I agree in principle with what you say, but first past the post isn't infallible either.
The NRL minor premiership last year could be argued to have been won by the wrong team. The Dragons won by a game, but the Bulldogs were robbed by a pathetic referring decision which cost them a win over the Dragons earlier in the season. There's a 4 point turn-around which in the final wash-up cost them the premiership. And before you bag me, no I'm not a Bulldog supporter, I don't really follow any team in the NRL.
FC won the premiership by only 2/3 of a game, so if Melbourne had received a dud decision during the season costing them a win, say a dubious penalty at 90+3, you could be justified in saying that the best team didn't necessarily win.

 

[dibo]

I think the EPL has shown us the way forward with their proposal for a playoff for the fourth UEFA CL spot.

Let the League Champions have their day, but then have playoffs for the second spot. This year you would have Sydney taking the big prize, and then the next four sides play off for the second spot. It creates a mini-cup, similar to what the AFC CL is anyway, the winner of which goes through. Plenty of interest, a finals series of sorts, without diluting the value of first past the post.

Spike - I'm a Dragons fan and I was at that game and we robbed them blind. But there were 23 other games in the season. Who's to say that the Dogs didn't benefit similarly from a shit decision elsewhere and the Dragons suffer? Assuming errors sum to zero, across 24 games the good and shit decisions even out. Across one game the chances are much less.

Think about 2007/8.

We were the best across 21 games. It was narrow but it was fair and square. Across the 1890 minutes we can assume that good and shit came in equal measure and officials' decisions weren't the deciding factor. We won the Premiers' Plate fair and square.

In the Grand Final, we were probably on a par for the 90 minutes. Neither side particularly deserved to win it - they deserved their goal but we also deserved a penalty and the chance to at least go to extra time. We were denied by an absolute howler of a decision.

So after by that point 2160 minutes, it was one ridiculous error right at the end of one 90 minute period f**ked the season.

Or go back to 2005/6. Adelaide were streets ahead, and yet a playoff to Sydney and a frankly lucky win by us with jammy goal from Tommy and a massive defensive effort knocked them out. They didn't deserve that. They were clearly the best team across the season. They didn't get the chance to win the 'Championship' because of two games.

I think the finals make a mockery of the 21 (now 27) weeks that precede them. I accept they bring in shitloads of money and are an easy sell for TV, but to imagine that they somehow provide a valid test of the best team in the country is to be mistaken.

 

[Atomic]

I think the EPL has shown us the way forward with their proposal for a playoff for the fourth UEFA CL spot.

Let the League Champions have their day, but then have playoffs for the second spot. This year you would have Sydney taking the big prize, and then the next four sides play off for the second spot. It creates a mini-cup, similar to what the AFC CL is anyway, the winner of which goes through. Plenty of interest, a finals series of sorts, without diluting the value of first past the post.

Just wait for the outcry when the top 2 teams are equal on points at the end of the season, only separated by goal difference, streets ahead of the rest of the field, only for the 2nd place team to choke in the final and miss an ACL spot.

No system is perfect (for Australia). First past the post, finals series.... East is east, west is west and never the twain shall meet.

For those of us interested in a first past the post champion, one thing we're neglecting in this little micro-debate is the small matter of relegation. For people concerned about losing interest towards the end of the season, imagine if your team was in a dog fight to stay in the top flight.... Plenty of interest there! If the crowd doesn't show, relegation is almost a certainty.

 

[Harsulas_SFC]

Changing the subj, lol at the Tweets from the Tards asking hteir fans to stand up in the face of riot police provocation yesterday

Standing up will just make them easier to hit.  Trust security and the cops both have the Tards down as dangerious animals, and being happy to punch on with psyched up riot squad members and ripping out seats ain't going to improve that view.  Like it or not, if they're going to decide to lump in on cops in full view of cameras, there really is only going to be one outcome.