Round Nine - Local league thread

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

but if he allowed the kick to go outside of time, then wouldn't that be mean to the defence? ;-)

 

[Bear]

bit if he allowed the kick to go outside of time, then wouldn't that be mean to the defence? ;-)

He never mentioned free kick, I took it as open play

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

That's how I took it too

Geez, looking at this weather I'm already not overly optimistic for the weekend....

 

[BAD BULLZ]

It WAS  open play both games.

 

[BAD BULLZ]

f**k eggy i swaer ur new name should be kareem ur jus that f**king good

LOL YUP I ROCK JUST ASK ME. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ME AND KREME IS I AM THAT DAMN GOOD

 

[Omni]

oh, and a massive thumbs up to omni who reffed our game

probably the best ref i have had in many seasons

let the game flow well and didn't have to brandish yellow cards willy nilly when things got heated to maintain control

well done chris

Thanks Mick much appreciated - if it wasn't for that guy taking his shirt off when he scored I wouldn't have given a card!

As for the stoppage time discussion happening here: All Age - 40 Minutes NO stoppage time. Referees add NO time even if the ball is crossing the line. The only time you add time on is for a penalty to be taken - as per FIFA rules.

 

[marinermick]

oh, and a massive thumbs up to omni who reffed our game

probably the best ref i have had in many seasons

let the game flow well and didn't have to brandish yellow cards willy nilly when things got heated to maintain control

well done chris

Thanks Mick much appreciated - if it wasn't for that guy taking his shirt off when he scored I wouldn't have given a card!

well, it was a bomb of a freekick

in his words - it was worth it

 

[PubBrawler]

Thats what we had Omni a penalty, but the ref blow the halftime whistle, shouldn,t we be able to have the shot first then time off? i,m going to ring the bigwig ref at central coast soccer to fined out the proper rules are!

 

[T]

oh, and a massive thumbs up to omni who reffed our game

probably the best ref i have had in many seasons

let the game flow well and didn't have to brandish yellow cards willy nilly when things got heated to maintain control

well done chris

Gotta 2nd this, Thanks
Let the game flow and was consistant.... which is a rare thing in WAA5 matches!!

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

Thats what we had Omni a penalty, but the ref blow the halftime whistle, shouldn,t we be able to have the shot first then time off? i,m going to ring the bigwig ref at central coast soccer to fined out the proper rules are!

Was it a penalty or a free kick?

A penalty is what's known as a 'dot shot' - a free kick (including indirect free kicks here) is anything else.

If it wasn't in the box, with the ball placed on the penalty spot, and all players except the kicker and the goalkeeper positioned outside the box, then it wasn't a penalty

And only a penalty requires the referee to ensure the kick is taken, even if time's up.  Every other type of restart - free kick, corner, etc, has no such requirement in the laws.

Hence, when we're instructed not to play stoppage time, 40.00 means 40.00, not 40.02, or 40.45.  That's the fairest way to both teams.

It'd take balls for any referee to blow for time while a ball is in the air towards an open goal - but if it's done right when his watch says so (And assuming he's started his watch right on kick-off, and not a second or two after), then the referee would be correct to do so. 

 

[Omni]

oh, and a massive thumbs up to omni who reffed our game

probably the best ref i have had in many seasons

let the game flow well and didn't have to brandish yellow cards willy nilly when things got heated to maintain control

well done chris

Thanks Mick much appreciated - if it wasn't for that guy taking his shirt off when he scored I wouldn't have given a card!

well, it was a bomb of a freekick

in his words - it was worth it

Easiest Yellow card I've had to give, nearly a red good thing you kept him on the field of play!

Thanks for your comments as well T.

 

[Gopher of Pern]

Thats what we had Omni a penalty, but the ref blow the halftime whistle, shouldn,t we be able to have the shot first then time off? i,m going to ring the bigwig ref at central coast soccer to fined out the proper rules are!

Was it a penalty or a free kick?

A penalty is what's known as a 'dot shot' - a free kick (including indirect free kicks here) is anything else.

If it wasn't in the box, with the ball placed on the penalty spot, and all players except the kicker and the goalkeeper positioned outside the box, then it wasn't a penalty

And only a penalty requires the referee to ensure the kick is taken, even if time's up.  Every other type of restart - free kick, corner, etc, has no such requirement in the laws.

Hence, when we're instructed not to play stoppage time, 40.00 means 40.00, not 40.02, or 40.45.  That's the fairest way to both teams.

It'd take balls for any referee to blow for time while a ball is in the air towards an open goal - but if it's done right when his watch says so (And assuming he's started his watch right on kick-off, and not a second or two after), then the referee would be correct to do so. 

OK, fair enough, if time was up, time was up.

But then, couldn't the other team have been accused of time wasting? They were well within the 10 yards, preventing us from taking the free kick. I guess most refs would have allowed us to take the time, but this one didnt.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

Gopher - time wasting is a fair consideration, but again ,the referee is going to make some allowances for that - it's fairly normal for one team to start building the wall well within the 10 yards and expect the ref to move them back - or to slowly retreat the 10 yards.  Usually, both are generally acceptable, partially because it's just normal behaviour.  If the player is about to take the kick and they've run in to stop it, that starts to get more serious - same with being in the 10 yards and making no attempt to move back (though you're usually going to allow them a few seconds) then stepping across to block a kick (though if they're moving back and the ball is kicked into them, tough luck!)

Though even if they were time wasting, the rule of 'no stoppage time' still doesn't apply.....

Hmm, I guess that's one problem with this rule, isn't it? 

 

[Kareem]

Gopher - time wasting is a fair consideration, but again ,the referee is going to make some allowances for that - it's fairly normal for one team to start building the wall well within the 10 yards and expect the ref to move them back - or to slowly retreat the 10 yards.  Usually, both are generally acceptable, partially because it's just normal behaviour.  If the player is about to take the kick and they've run in to stop it, that starts to get more serious - same with being in the 10 yards and making no attempt to move back (though you're usually going to allow them a few seconds) then stepping across to block a kick (though if they're moving back and the ball is kicked into them, tough luck!)

Though even if they were time wasting, the rule of 'no stoppage time' still doesn't apply.....

Hmm, I guess that's one problem with this rule, isn't it? 

hmmm
the problem is that in amature leagues (ie. without stoppage time) we are playing a game devloped in a professional manner. This doesnt arise in important games (ie. professional, semi-pro or even 1st grade...) due to the p[resence of stoppage time. An alternative is to make an edited version of the rules for amaturers or just put up with it (which is better option- too hard and silly to make 2 different sets of rules)(you know how confusing it is refereeing u9-11s because of the annoying but i guess necessary rule change?).
At the end of the day you cant do anything about it...just hope people are ethical...good luck with that

 

[Gopher of Pern]

What is the reason for amatuer leagues not getting stoppage time? it wouldnt be time restraints would it? I can't see a couple of minutes here and there being too disruptful of a days play. Maybe if there was a major incident, like a major injury, would slow things down, but you could make a seperate rule for that.

I guess a more experienced ref might have let us have a bit longer, but it's not the ref's fault, but a bit of rules in an unusual situation that conspired against us!

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

Gopher - time constraints is the big thing.  Bear in mind that in the middle of winter, there is sometimes barely enough light to finish the last match - if it starts on time.

Look at the Friday night games - 17s and 18s.  6pm and 7:30pm kickoff.
These matches go for 80 min each.  Halftime is up to 15min (usually around 5-10min).  So let's take an average of 10min halftime.
This means the first match will finish on kick-off for the 2nd one - consider that the referees need to make their way back to the ref's room, have a drink, and do any paperwork from the last game, as well as make their way back down to the field, check the equipment of the players, check the nets again (admittedly, those last 2 are often ignored), then conduct the coin toss....Although often lights are run on a timer, so there may be no leeway for stoppage time there.

This situation is echoed on Saturdays, where often an U/16 match will kick off 75min after the preceding U/15 match.  U/15 - 35min each way, 5min halftime - you do the match.

You used to have this occur across every grade.  I just looked at the appointments for 26 April, and it seems that CCF have spaced games out a lot better - many games (particularly younger ones) will allow for 10-15min between matches.  Back then, even a minute or two of stoppage time over a match would be quite disruptive, as it adds up - if a match starts late, we're supposed to deduct time from each half.  So if one match has 4min stoppage time (in a situation with no time to spare), then the following match would play 4min less, but then they might have 6min stoppage time, so the following match would play 6min less (plus whatever other time is lost between the games)......it builds up over the course of the day.  The closeness of games is why games used to regularly start rather late. 

Men's and Women's matches will typically have either 1hr 45 and 2 hours between kickoff times.

I would say that both time slots do allow for stoppage time - however, CCF have just kept the instruction that only First Grade are to have stoppage time.  I don't agree with it, but I do apply it.  The referee decided to stick with the rules in your situation, which is his decision - I wouldn't even put that down to experience, it's simply his approach to the 'no stoppage time' rule - and he has stuck with the rules there.

It's a shit situation for all - I've been in the middle and been frustrated when I've wanted to add time, but couldn't.  Sometimes the time lost can be quite significant.

Yeah, it's shit.  And yeah, it can lead to problems - as has happened in your match. 

I agree that if CCF implemented stoppage time for all grades, it could be applied with a separate instruction to, say 'have as little stoppage time as possible', and if it's a serious incident, then no more than 5min stoppage time for the half, something like that.  That would be a common sense approach.

It is always something you could get your club to raise with CCF......

 

[Kareem]

What is the reason for amatuer leagues not getting stoppage time? it wouldnt be time restraints would it? I can't see a couple of minutes here and there being too disruptful of a days play. Maybe if there was a major incident, like a major injury, would slow things down, but you could make a seperate rule for that.

I guess a more experienced ref might have let us have a bit longer, but it's not the ref's fault, but a bit of rules in an unusual situation that conspired against us!

1) It is pretty much time constraints
2) It does add up
3) reason it is done for 1st grade is
a) it is top division
b) it is last game for day- hence not affecting other kickoffs
4) experience has nothing to do with it IMO. When i was a lesser experience referee I would have let freekick taken place just because I thought it may be fair but with my experience now- i realise that wats fair for one team is unfair to another...

 

[razza]

What is the reason for amatuer leagues not getting stoppage time? it wouldnt be time restraints would it? I can't see a couple of minutes here and there being too disruptful of a days play. Maybe if there was a major incident, like a major injury, would slow things down, but you could make a seperate rule for that.

I guess a more experienced ref might have let us have a bit longer, but it's not the ref's fault, but a bit of rules in an unusual situation that conspired against us!

1) It is pretty much time constraints
2) It does add up
3) reason it is done for 1st grade is
a) it is top division
b) it is last game for day- hence not affecting other kickoffs
4) experience has nothing to do with it IMO. When i was a lesser experience referee I would have let freekick taken place just because I thought it may be fair but with my experience now- i realise that wats fair for one team is unfair to another...

Your experience of 7 rounds of refereeing. Maybe you should wait too your a little more experience before you comment, otherwise no one is really going to value your opinion. I know i don't

 

[Kareem]

I agree that if CCF implemented stoppage time for all grades, it could be applied with a separate instruction to, say 'have as little stoppage time as possible', and if it's a serious incident, then no more than 5min stoppage time for the half, something like that.  That would be a common sense approach.

It is always something you could get your club to raise with CCF......

it would be better in theory however I am sure we would find difficutly in distinguishing what would be considered 'little stoppage time as possible' and what a 'serious' incident would be...
at the end of the day whilst it can be frustrating I think its just easiest to have a blanket- all encompassing rule (1st grade excepted) which is no stoppage time.

Although in argument against myself I will bring forward the case of the preliminary (winner of minor semi vs loser of major) final in 2006 u18B's Entrance vs someone
Other team took early lead it hink maybe 2 goals. Entrance began to shift the game in their favour and we dominating only for some player on other team to get SERIOUSLY injured. took 15-25 mins for an ambulance to come which was wasted 15-25 mins of Entrance comeback. I  think Entrance pulled one back but didnt have enough time to get 2...
it was sad especially since I dont think the lights were on timer nor were there any games afterwards- it was just CCF protocol which had to be followed to the letter- and the other team certainly didnt plan for this to happen, or at least i hope not!

 

[Kareem]

1) hmmm...i still stand by my comment as essentially I am more experienced then I was 8****** rounds ago! Ask any ref- they would have felt a big difference after 2 weeks of refereeing
2) If you read the comment- it wasnt made because of my 'experience'- omni and Gus shred me in that department (duh!). My comment was implying that a lesser experienced ref was more prone to doing that. Omni and Gus wouldnt do that due to their experience and I wont now due to however little or much experience I possess!