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Letter to Ben Buckley re grand final

Tassiemariner

Well-Known Member
Tassie standard is ok, I'll take a stab and say it's about the same as CCPL.

Gladsville Spirit are playing in Launceston sometime in the next couple of weeks so that will give me a slight indication.

Also alot of clubs are ethinic still.
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
I understand what you guys are saying and in truth in many ways agree, but despite what you say Kev about time for the FFA to move on.....................but that also holds true for the ethnic clubs.

My experience is that is not happening and it would not take much for the News or Fairfax press to put the boot in never mind the AFL & NRL TV stations.

However I believe a second comp in the final series would suite and be beneficational for the A-League how you choose the other six teams is a problem, but not beyond FFA if they put their minds to it.
 

skilbeck

Well-Known Member
there would need to be a supercup at the start of the following season  IMO

it would be a good curtain raiser in the week before the a league kicks off.

Plus id love to play the scum first up
 

BrisRecky

I'm an idiot savant without the pesky savant bit
Foriegnmariner said:
Tassie standard is ok, I'll take a stab and say it's about the same as CCPL.

Gladsville Spirit are playing in Launceston sometime in the next couple of weeks so that will give me a slight indication.

Also alot of clubs are ethinic still.


Ethnic...really???? ya mean like penguins v lumberjacks or sumthin...( just kiddin mate..slap me for being a smartarse)
 

loyalist

Well-Known Member
ethnic clubs have been the lifeblood of football in australia
if it weren't for them football would not be as it is today
long live proud clubs with names such as croatia and hellas
 

kevrenor

Well-Known Member
forzamariners said:
ethnic clubs have been the lifeblood of football in australia
if it weren't for them football would not be as it is today
long live proud clubs with names such as croatia and hellas

And Wallsend, and Balgownie Rangers ..
 

nero

Well-Known Member
I know this topic is a bit of tongue and cheek, but on the serious side we need to remember the phase OLD SOCCER NEW FOOTBALL! The FFA need to stay as far away from the nsl clubs as possible.

I use to watch Breaker and Newy United games when I lived there and it was ok most of the time. But the product we have to watch now is 1000% better, maybe not in skill and fluent football, but in crowds, hype and just abput everything else.
Lets get the HAL to a level where it is considered in the top 3 sports in Australia and then think about the old soccer coming back to the party.

p.s I am not trying to attack anyone's fav. nsl team I just believe we have the best situation possible now and should let the product continue to develop without problems.
 
P

Pete

Guest
Midfielder: I'll try to be as unbiased as I can and just refer you to past history of the game in Australia.

WARNING  :popo: ONE OF MY LONG RANTS FOLLOWS... :soapbox:

You are suggesting State League teams made up by region, presumably selections made by the various Associations in those districts. To the exclusion of the ethnic based community clubs.

This very scenario arose in the late 50s early 60s, where the Associations, led by mostly Anglo-Saxon ethnic based District Associations, tried to exclude the 'ethnic' clubs, like Hakoah, Prague, APIA and Sydney Austral from the competition in NSW. It led to a breakaway comp, I think.

And the English, Scots and the Welsh (and Aussies) never got on with the other footballing immigrants from that time on. That split ultimately led to the NSW-RL taking a greater stronghold over the districts they functioned in. The Football in those areas was divided and weaker as a result.

One ponders that if the collective might of all the post World War 2 immigrants have banded together and put up a good solid NSW comp with the District Associations, not divided and wary of each other, then things might have been different with the attitude that the folks at the now-NRL have towards Football.

Sure clubs like South Melbourne STILL have issues to address, and it must be understood that the insular nature of the ethnic based fan base is not the best way to promote a sport (Tennis and Cricket is slowly learning that too, eh?).

But the passionate way these sort of clubs came about, was because they had been excluded and forced to defend the way they had structured their clubs (which mostly were community clubs for the ethnic communities they supported, and provided much needed social focus points for the various ex pats who found themselves in Australia) against a bureaucracy they saw as 20 years behind the times. Their views on Football was not being respected, and the players and administrators did feel that they were being dismissed purely because of their ethnicity.

A lot of the extremities we hear about 'ethnic' clubs would have been rendered ineffectual prior to it getting to that, if the clubs had been accepted by the general football community and the clubs asked to widen it's member base.

Having had to deal with a very old fashioned Auburn District Football Association in the late 60s and early 70s, as a kid, there was no glamour to representing your District at all. In fact, they made you pay for everything, even if you ended up being a Socceroo (and I do have my first hand source on that but won't name names). By then though, an Aussie kid like me, had little chance of trying out for Marconi, or Yugal Prague, as it was believed that they looked after 'their own'.

On the other hand, kids playing RL, if they found themselves selected for a District team, would end up not having to pay for registration fees, and would get their District Rep kit for free. It's no wonder the likes of Terry Lamb ended up playing RL - and he had his choices. Same for a lot of others who ended up playing rep RL for either Western Suburbs or Canterbury-Bankstown, but who may have started out playing 'sokkah'.

In summary, the change from an ethnic based membership for any such club, must come from within and with an assurance of acceptance of their views and a greater understanding of their positions. If you exclude them and cut them from any further participation, they will either wither on the vine, or become more insular and protective of what they have.

Above all, though, it must be put to everyone that the sport of Football is for everyone. Extremism, of any sort, can't be tolerated.

Oh, and Forza, I will still love you in the morning  :-*
 
P

Pete

Guest
aussiecross said:
gez pete.....looks up at clock has moved 40 mins haha ;)

Gave you the warning........the drugs for this damned virus I have, have kicked in and the brain is speeding  :vhappy:. Great way to spend rec. leave for the past week or so, eh? :vomit:

And no, I'm not going anywhere near a bus this week.
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
Pete & Forzamariners

Pete First

We will disagree on two things first your interpretation of the 1955 revolution and second on the effect on football of the clubs I named earlier in my post. One thing in common I used to also go to watch Auburn player in the 1960s.

Let me be clear on my interpretation of the 1955 revolution. Prior to 1955 football was by and large run by the associations. There management of football was being kind very poor, some say pathetic. The game was run by ANGLEOS of the day and of their value system, many having just returned from the war.

Due to the mass immigration after the war from Europe many football came along with vastly superior football skills, and for the most part were better managers, and had more money.

Then a kinda of 1950s super league war broke out between the two groups, i.e. the immigrants V the associations. So in 1955 a brave new football league was formed run and managed better than the associations, more money, better players and also took many of the players from the associations. Granville had a number of Croatian players who said we have been told to play for Croatia United.

There were right and wrongs of both sides, for me if the immigrants had stayed in the associations they would have run them by the early 60s but that desire to piss these dickheads off I guess got the better of them.

Effectively the new league won, took over the running of football outside the associations, got Australia kicked out of FIFA and isolated from the main stream media for close to 50 years, and when TV was setting up in the 60s gave AFL & league a free start.

Whos fault both, but as time went on the new clubs and my guess not the intention of the founders developed ethnic followings, which is fine, except in a national football code.

You cannot have a team in a national football code saying, whether openly or inversely saying we are the !!!!!!!!!!!! team. No other national league in the world has such a structure, you can get the rich V poor, religion V religion, but never based on a prescription of a team representing a particular racial group.

I accept your point that it must come from within, but in a practical sense the within part is not happening very quickly.

My original thoughts were for the finals series to be replaced by a knock out competition, but to run smoothly 16 teams are needed. My suggestion was regional based state teams to broaden the leagues appeal.

Kevenor then suggested that you could not .or maybe should not leave out all state clubs and there is some reason in his logic. Kevenor and others said it was time New Football got over Old Soccer and invite them back into the fold and Pete you said similar things yourself. I have no problem with anything you say except in a National League.

I guess that is why I choice to say let us pick in advance regional / area based teams if this is not of enough quality then let us wait. As I have not seen the evidence (and yes I have been to some state games) which would allow the risk of having ethnic teams in our national league with all the media wishing / praying for something to go wrong and put football back in its box.


Forzamariners

I am not one who believes the long and often told SBS line and held as truth by many as that without the ethnic clubs football would be no where today.

I lived in Fairfield and Liverpool and are you really telling me that those Croatian, Greek and Italian kids would not have played if the teams had been called Liverpool . Fairfield & Bankstown,..and that the Dads would not have come down to coach them.

Of course they would have, kids played football Dads coached for many teams even Hot Spurs (Smithfield) had Harry Kwell.

This is no way to disrespect anything that they achieved, but it is going to far to suggest as often is, that without them football would be nowhere and would have died.

It has become more apparent over the last three years with SBS analysis of the A-League and how incredible one eyed and bias they can be, however they have always been so especially to anyone who took a different view to theres on the 1955 stuff.

Football was built in Australia by many people over years in spite of the management of Old Soccerwho did it Mums & Dads in local park teams with Dads training their sons in something they loved not for a SH*THOUSELY RUN OFTEN CORUPT NSL clubs. Who run the park clubs the associations.

So as I see it and I realize my view is rarly heard as SBS loath a different  interpretation to theirs and other media outlets could not give two hotts about it. But Mums and Dads build football through their local park teams and associations not a bunch of mono based ethnic clubs IMO.
 
P

Pete

Guest
Midfielder, I will try to keep this brief for fear of Aussiecross slashing his wrists!

I'm glad to see your comments put to me, as they were. Believe me, we tend to agree more than we disagree on the whole scheme of things. I put the historical rant up so one could see that Football has been there and done that with respect to isolating ethnic clubs, but you're right too, there were wrongs on both sides.

Anyone who has spoken to me, and maybe it's been hinted at in my posts, will realise I'm no fan of the way the NSL degenerated into the basketcase it became. And also that I'm no fan of the old ethnic-based 'flares and flags from other countries' (hello Forza - I know you're a joker on all this btw  ;))type clubs.

Maybe it is a prospect to have the most successful State league teams represent their regions, as listed by yourself. I'm hopeful that the various State and District Associations have improved in their ideals these days. Simply put, they were horrible when I was a kid and had mates trying to get ahead with rep honours. Also, I'm hoping that these big State league clubs have improved their lot too. If they have, then there's no reason not to let them into a comp. other than for the possible worth of the level of game they can provide, and the type of competition you will get.

A less proficient defender from a State League club is more likely to hack and injure a HAL star and put them out of action for a long time. Not out of malice, but more out of bad technique and timing. Is that the sort of risk a HAL club would be comfortable with? I think not - even for an end of season knock out comp.

BTW, Kevrenor and Midfielder, I intend to get along to some State League games in Sydney to see for myself what level of game they offer.
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
Pete

I actually think we hold very similar views, my maybe overly simplistic view is to avoid any problems and market the game FFA hand pick a regional based state league team it has its problems, but to allow those old clubs and the fools who ran them who are still there any chance of F********g up what has been achieved is to huge a risk. I say this because I have a mate who is a big fan of Blacktown Demons and maybe 4 to 6 times a year I wonder out to Blacktown and watch them.

Off to bed now before the wife finds out I still online
 

loyalist

Well-Known Member
i just looked at this thread
and it will probaly take me about 3 hours to read all that has been posted after my post
might do it later
:)

p.s. i haven't watched sbs for about 4 years
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
WITHOUT DOUBT MY EMAIL ONLY HAD THE WATER EFFECT ON A ROCK  AS kEV SAID, BUT ALSO AS KEV SAID WE ALL SENT LETTERS AND EMAILS IN TO GET THE WATER EFFECT.

See link below for why

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,23363479-23215,00.html

Cup competition on FFA agenda
By Adrian Warren
March 12, 2008 A DOMESTIC cup competition along the lines of England's FA Cup is just one of the issues being considered by Football Federation Australia after it met with a group of former Australia players.

The informal forum included FFA chief executive Ben Buckley and board member Phil Wolanski and several past Socceroos including former captains Alex Tobin and Charlie Yankos, and players from previous eras including Ray Baartz, John Watkiss, Ted Smith and Doug Wendt.

Buckley said the issues discussed included the mentoring of current players by their predecessors, the new national youth league, a national football development plan, recognising the game's history and the establishment of a Socceroo Club.

Also discussed was the establishment of a knock-out cup competition, something which hasn't been played in Australia for just over 10 years.

The former competition, which ran from 1977 to 1997, included only National League clubs and attracted little publicity.

Tobin revealed a new cup format could allow teams from state leagues a crack at the A-League clubs, in much the same way the FA Cup allows lower division and non-league minnows a chance to upset the Premier League giants.

Australia's most capped Socceroo, Tobin, acknowledged there were logistical and geographical problems associated with a genuine national competition Down Under.

"Any talk about cup competitions in Australia has difficulties, obviously with the travel and a small club in NSW probably can't resource itself to be able to play a small club in Perth, that's the reality of it," Tobin said.

"So any cup competition may have to come with a notion of a regionalised system.

"Maybe A-League clubs and NSW Premier League and Victorian Premier League clubs can come in at a later stage, something of that nature.

"To give all clubs an opportunity of playing an A-League opponent is a great sort of fairytale story that you would love to see happen.

"It's not easy, there's no doubt about that, but it's something at least we can put on the drawing board and maybe have a think about it and if it's possible then it would be great to see and I'm sure the general public would get behind it."

Former central defender Tobin, now an assistant coach with the Central Coast Mariners, was pleased to see the FFA showing interest in recognising the history of the Socceroos.

Buckley said Australia had a rich football history and needed to find a way to celebrate and embrace its past.

He stressed the importance of elevating the public profile of the FFA's Hall of Fame and finding a venue to house the code's memorabilia.

Tobin welcomed the news as he said it was not something that had been done well in the past.

"When I was playing for the national team I was upset that I didn't know enough about the previous generation and it wasn't through any lack of intelligence and trying to find that information, it just wasn't out there, so it would be great to recognise that past and collate any of the noteworthy artifacts and memorabilia of those generations," Tobin said.

Buckley said the forum had produced a lot of good ideas and he would like to make it a regular occurrence.
 

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