AFC Asian Cup - Qatar Jan 7th to 29th 2011

[pjennings]

Now that we are getting close - any predictions, formations or the like?

I of course would like Australia to win - but am wooried poarticularly by Korea. My other concern is how we line up.

Forget about who our oppenents are, if our prime purpose is to win this and not use it as a development tournament we have to have our best on the field.

My starting XI would be

-----------------SCHWARZER
CULINA---OGNENOVSKI----NEILL---WILKSHIRE
-----------------JEDINAK----------------
---EMERTON---------------------HOLMAN---
-----------------KEWELL-----------------
-----------CAHILL-----MCDONALD----------

I have no spot in the starting XI for Spiranovic, Oar or Carney. They just aren't getting enough game time. The lucky inclusion at this stage is Emerton. Kilkenny is playing well enough and Brett badly enough for Kilkenny to get the role.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

I understand dropping Carney, but besides the fact we know it WONT happen - Wilkshire and Emmo combine very well on the right and is not something I would readily break up. If we are playing 442, then Culina would get the nod over Mile for me at the bottom of the diamond - much as I dislike his on the park persona. I also brought in Spiro to add some more pace for which always concerns me in pairings with Lucas.


--------------SCHWARZER

WILKSHIRE----NEILL---SPIRONAVIC-- CARNEY

-----------------CULINA----------------

---EMERTON---------------------KEWELL---

-----------------HOLMAN-----------------

-----------CAHILL-----MCDONALD----------


Personally I think a diamond 442 presents a problem against some of the Asian clubs in defence... namely once again we will be seeing Carney isolated against pacey wingers far too much for my liking - and then watching our slow central defenders get pulled out of position and get carved up - ala Egypt. (Which is why I dropped the OG monster form my starting XI)

I think a genuine attacking 433 would probably better suit, also more interesting for subs... maybe something like...


--------------SCHWARZER

WILKSHIRE---NEILL---SPIRANOVIC-- CARNEY


---EMERTON-----KILKENNY-----CULINA ---


---HOLMAN------CAHILL-----KEWELL----


Bench

Macca, Mile, Og, Burns, Jones

 

[Marquee]

-----------------SCHWARZER

WILKSHIRE---OGNENOVSKI----NEILL---CARNEY

-----------------JEDINAK----------------

---EMERTON-------CULINA--------HOLMAN---

------------CAHILL-----------------

----------------------MCDONALD----------

 

[timmers]

The only glaring deficiency in that side is a quick, tall Central Defender. We don't have an out and out striker but obviously we have enough goal scorers in our midfield for that not to be a problem.

I like your thinking Marquee, I would be picking...

------------Schwarzer------------

Wilkshire-Ognenovski-Neill-Carney

-------Jedinak-----Culina--------

Emerton--------------------Kewell

--------------Cahill------------

-------------McDonald-----------

I know Holman is deserving of a spot and has been playing club football very regularly (I think), but if we play with two DMs to sure up our defence, I would still be picking Harry instead of him. The formation above asks a lot of Timmy but I think we need a fairly defensive minded midfield to put pressure on teams.

 

[pjennings]

I understand dropping Carney, but besides the fact we know it WONT happen - Wilkshire and Emmo combine very well on the right and is not something I would readily break up. If we are playing 442, then Culina would get the nod over Mile for me at the bottom of the diamond - much as I dislike his on the park persona. I also brought in Spiro to add some more pace for which always concerns me in pairings with Lucas.


--------------SCHWARZER

WILKSHIRE----NEILL---SPIRONAVIC-- CARNEY

-----------------CULINA----------------

---EMERTON---------------------KEWELL---

-----------------HOLMAN-----------------

-----------CAHILL-----MCDONALD----------


Personally I think a diamond 442 presents a problem against some of the Asian clubs in defence... namely once again we will be seeing Carney isolated against pacey wingers far too much for my liking - and then watching our slow central defenders get pulled out of position and get carved up - ala Egypt. (Which is why I dropped the OG monster form my starting XI)

I think a genuine attacking 433 would probably better suit, also more interesting for subs... maybe something like...


--------------SCHWARZER

WILKSHIRE---NEILL---SPIRANOVIC-- CARNEY


---EMERTON-----KILKENNY-----CULINA ---


---HOLMAN------CAHILL-----KEWELL----


Bench

Macca, Mile, Og, Burns, Jones

I would have picked Spiranovic over Ognenovski except for game time.

However, I can't go for Carney for the game time issue and for the reasons you sited about quick defenders exposing him. Basically that's what happened in 2007 and Grella and Meggsy were constantly beong caught wide covering for him.

I realise your point with Wilkshire and Emerton, However, unless he shows something against the UAE I think Emerton, who is in really bad form, may be replaced by Kilkenny.

Finally - Kewell should be playing more centrally. He is now a one-trick pony out wide and defenders can shut him down easily. Put him in the middle, in the hole or in a pair of strikers he has room to go either way and is a lot more dangerous. Also with Kewell wide in front of Carney we would be asking for trouble down that flank.

 

[scottmac]

Forget 2 DM's. Its not going to happen.

The only way we will win this cup is if we attack like there's no tomorrow.

My team,

----------------Schwarzer--------------

Wilkshire----Og----Neill----Carney

------------------Culina-----------------

Emerton----------------------Holman

------------------Cahill------------------

--------McDonald------Kewell-------

Gives Cahill more space to lose his man/men and the front 5 are all goal scorers (if only for club ATM)

The only spot I think is up for grabs is the DM. Culina is quick and can join in well on the attack. Jedi is more defensive and provides a great target off the set piece. Also has a mean shot from the free kick too.

I think if Holgs goes with Cahill up front he is in for a rough tournament. He needs the anonymity of sitting off the front line, forcing opposition midfielders to drop in to pick him up. This will reduce teams ability to hit us on the break especially with quick guys on the flanks in Emerton and Holman

 

[pjennings]

I think a genuine attacking 433 would probably better suit, also more interesting for subs... maybe something like...


--------------SCHWARZER

WILKSHIRE---NEILL---SPIRANOVIC-- CARNEY


---EMERTON-----KILKENNY-----CULINA ---


---HOLMAN------CAHILL-----KEWELL----

FP - The more I look at this the more I like it. Still don't like Carney though. If I were to change my lineup to a variation of 4-3-1-2 I would still use the same personnel as I had above except for Kilkenny for Jedi and set up as

--------------SCHWARZER

CULINA---NEILL------OGNENOVSKI--WILKSHIRE


---EMERTON-----KILKENNY---------HOLMAN---

---------------CAHILL

--------MCDONALD-------KEWELL---------

 

[dibo]

Carney is our number one LB and that's who will play there, no question.

I like Scottmac's setup, though I think Holman will play closer to goal.

 

[pjennings]

Carney is our number one LB and that's who will play there, no question.

I like Scottmac's setup, though I think Holman will play closer to goal.

Maybe he will play there - but he shouldn't.

The guy has less than 50 games for his clubs since leaving Sydney in mid 2007, a lot of them as a substitute. He consistently got caught upfield at the last Asian Cup against speedy opponents which led to Grella and Meggsy continually being caught wide covering for him.

He is our weakness - if we don't do something about it he will be our downfall.

Defenders are there to defend first - when he can do that maybe I would reconsider.

 

[dibo]

I'd rather play him there than play Wilkshire on his wrong side and Culina out of position. Emerton at RB maybe, but still doesn't save us from having Wilkshire on his wrong side when the whole point of having Ratboy is that he wraps around the RM.

Carney's our best LB. Until we can get a newplayer developed or have Lazaridis or Chipperfield chocked up with the elixir of youth it's a problem we're stuck with.

 

[pjennings]

Culina would not be out of position - he played a lot of his football for PSV at RB. I'm sure he can wrap around Emerton and send in a decent cross. Equally I am sure that Wilkshire who is a two footed footballer can and has played at LB. As a defender he is all over Carney.

Good footballers often play on the 'wrong side'.

 

[scottmac]

Culina would not be out of position - he played a lot of his football for PSV at RB. I'm sure he can wrap around Emerton and send in a decent cross. Equally I am sure that Wilkshire who is a two footed footballer can and has played at LB. As a defender he is all over Carney.

Good footballers often play on the 'wrong side'.

Most of our goals come down the right side delivered from Rat Boy or Emmo. Why would we want to sacrifice this to stop the odd threat down our left side?

We will not win this cup by stopping the opposition from scoring. We will win it by scoring more than them which requires our best players in their best positions. Rat Boy has been our best peformer at International level for a few years now. Changing him to the left would be shooting ourselves in the foot for not much if any gain.

 

[pjennings]

My team,

----------------Schwarzer--------------

Wilkshire----Og----Neill----Carney

------------------Culina-----------------

Emerton----------------------Holman

------------------Cahill------------------

--------McDonald------Kewell-------

Well - if reports are right you picked tonights team.

Schwarzer
Wilkshire
Og
Neill
Carney
Culina
Emerton
Holman
Kewell
Cahill
McDonald

 

[scottmac]

Well - if reports are right you picked tonights team.

Schwarzer
Wilkshire
Og
Neill
Carney
Culina
Emerton
Holman
Kewell
Cahill
McDonald

Swap McDonald for Jedinak and thats the starting 11.

--------------------Schwarzer------------------

Wilkshire------Og-------Neill------Carney

Emerton---Jedinak---Culina---Holman

--------------Cahill---------Kewell-----------

 

[scottmac]

Looks like a bloody small field?

Must be right on the lower limits.

 

[scottmac]

Would love this stadium at Tuggerah one day

 

[scottmac]

Culina would not be out of position - he played a lot of his football for PSV at RB. I'm sure he can wrap around Emerton and send in a decent cross. Equally I am sure that Wilkshire who is a two footed footballer can and has played at LB. As a defender he is all over Carney.

Good footballers often play on the 'wrong side'.

Most of our goals come down the right side delivered from Rat Boy or Emmo. Why would we want to sacrifice this to stop the odd threat down our left side?

We will not win this cup by stopping the opposition from scoring. We will win it by scoring more than them which requires our best players in their best positions. Rat Boy has been our best peformer at International level for a few years now. Changing him to the left would be shooting ourselves in the foot for not much if any gain.

4 goals, all from the right side. 2 delivered from Emmo and 1 from Rat Boy.

Carney was rusty as and Og didn't look comfortable. Sloppy performance really. Thank God we didn't play a Jordan or Syria.

 

[pjennings]

Just get rid of Carney - surely Josh Rose would do a better job!! Or my long term pick at LB - Olly

 

[Forum Phoenix]

In all sincerity, Rose would offer FARRRRR more than Carney is, both as a defender and an attacker.
Only thing Carney may be better with is his left footed strike... But hey... he doesn't have a right at all and Rose has scored twice with his right this season. Otherwise naturalise Cassio, because this is just getting ridiculous and it looks like it's only going to get worse.

Was clear with Carney's lack of telling runs and pace in attack and Holman out of position that we were quite literally lopsided as a team in attack tonight - which is why in my initial lineup I put Harry wide to help balance things - but I do agree, now he's older, he's much better value playing centrally now. (Cracking strike and a class game form him tonight) However Holman also offers more when he's central... *Shakes head* So our left side is clearly our issue.

I don't dislike Holger, but as a team I'm not at all confident that this is our best formation - or system of play - to win this tournament.

I am not a fan of the flat four at all - it always plays the same and creates the same problems in my experience and I'm more than a little disappointed that Osieck says we are looking to play "attacking football" while he puts two DM's on the park in a flat four. We are the highest ranked team in Asia. It was our attack that beat Serbia - and could of should have - beaten Ghana... and when we are playing against Korea or Bahrain with two DM"s?? I certainly don't see us as being the team described as playing the more attacking football. Especially when the bulk of our attack in the front third against lowly India was by exploiting our height and strength with balls in the air... Nothing wrong with it tactically, but it won't work anywhere near as well against many other sides. And besides that, frankly I'm sick of playing cautiously and I'd much rather lose to Korea 4-3 in a cracking match where we run at players, than two nil where we will very likely resort to hoofing the ball to Timmy hoping he can work a few miracles for us.

Time to trust our back line and the incredible Schwarz do their f**king job and not put two bloody screeners in front of them I say. And shock horror, field an Australian side with only one DM.

Speaking of which, defensively, we even almost got caught out by bloody India with through balls tonight... Which was no surprise unfortunately, and while I understand OG has been terrific in Asia (bit sketchy tonight though) - its hard not to want Spiro in there for some extra pace as previously mentioned and is clearly required at times.

Anyhow, based on all that, without wanting to sound like a broken record or a tosser, I really do prefer the 433 I listed above to what we saw tonight - or at least a diamond 442 with Culina at the bottom of the diamond. But you can already tell Osieck is a cautious man by nature (rings bells) and if he has prepared with a flat 442 - with two DM's - which he obviously has... then I really don't see him changing it anytime soon.



The positives...

Decent start. 3 points in the bank. But Bahrain and Korea will both also pick up 3 points against India and may do better in goal diff than us - but i'm supposed to be on my positives...

Harry was class and Tim was awesome.
Emmo and Neil were both solid and Neil only played a couple of pointless hoofs tonight.

What else...

McKay does not look out of place - and if we have to play a flat four, I prefer him to Mile - may my tongue turn black and fall out for saying so - but we need more attacking flair (Just don't let McKay shoot)

Interested to hear others thoughts.

FP

 

[kevrenor]

Australia vs Bahrain

Valeri, North, and McKay starting as media predicted - in lieu of injured Culina, Wilkshire, and Carney