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World didn't end

marinermick

Well-Known Member
www.news.com.au

SCIENTISTS at the world's biggest atom smasher near Geneva have started colliding particles at record energy levels, opening a new era in the quest for the secrets of the universe.

The European Organisation for Nuclear Research said it had unleashed the unprecedented bursts of energy on the third attempt, as beams of protons thrust around the 27km accelerator collided at close to the speed of light.

"This is physics in the making, the beginning of a new era, we have collisions at 7 TeV (teralectronvolts)," CERN scientist Paola Catapano said, referring to the record energy levels achieved.

CERN Director General Rolf Heuer could barely contain his excitement by video conference from Japan.

"It is a fantastic moment for science," he said.

The success came after a faltering start at the giant 3.9 billion ($5.73 billion) machine under the Franco-Swiss border near Geneva, which is aimed at unravelling some of the outstanding secrets of the universe.

The third attempt triggered collisions among the 20 billion protons in the Large Hadron Collider, creating powerful but microscopic bursts of energy that mimic conditions close to the Big Bang that created the universe.

"We're within a billionth of a second of the Big Bang," CERN spokesman James Gillies said.

Cheers and applause erupted in separate control rooms around the huge ring as the detectors recorded the collisions of sub-atomic particles on computer screen graphs.

One spokesman likened the attempt to firing needles from either side of the Atlantic and getting them to collide halfway, while the particles sped around the ring more than 5000 times a second.

The new stage, dubbed "First Physics", marks only the beginning of an initial 18- to 24-month series of billions of such collisions.

Scientists around the world will sift through and process the data on a giant computer network, searching for evidence of a theorised missing link called the Higgs Boson, commonly called the "God Particle".

"In this kind of physics, what's important in order to observe new phenomena is to collect statistics," CERN scientist Despiona Hatzifotiadu said.

"It will give us a clue of how we were created in the beginning," she added.

The experiment also aims to shed light on "dark matter" and subsequently "dark energy", invisible matter or forces that are thought to account together for some 96 per cent of the cosmos.

At this stage the LHC is still running on only partial power.

It is designed to run collisions at twice the current energy - 14 TeV, equivalent to 99.99 per cent of the speed of light.

CERN is aiming to cross that threshold with the giant, cryogenically-cooled machine after 2011.

At full power the detectors in cathedral-sized chambers should capture some 600 million collisions every second among trillions of protons racing around the LHC 11,245 times a second.

The decades-long attempt by CERN to observe and understand mysterious forces has also attracted sceptics, especially in Germany and the United States, who claim that the organisation is tampering with forces that might suck the world into a black hole, or generate destructive theoretical particles called strangelets.
 

Bex

Well-Known Member
Do they mean to say in the third last paragraph that they're planning to exceed the speed of light? That will be very interesting.
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
They said today that their is 6 times as much matter produced that we can see ... and may explain
weight & mass...
 

serious14

Well-Known Member
Bex said:
Do they mean to say in the third last paragraph that they're planning to exceed the speed of light? That will be very interesting.
No, they're just accelerating the beams to very close to the speed of light. As far as we know, exceeding this speed is impossible - any happenings of this sort would be a major discovery (and completely rewrite the laws of physics - objects could potentially acquire negative mass, freaky shit like that).
 

Bex

Well-Known Member
It is designed to run collisions at twice the current energy - 14 TeV, equivalent to 99.99 per cent of the speed of light.

CERN is aiming to cross that threshold with the giant, cryogenically-cooled machine after 2011.

That's what it says doesn't it?
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
Bex said:
It is designed to run collisions at twice the current energy - 14 TeV, equivalent to 99.99 per cent of the speed of light.

CERN is aiming to cross that threshold with the giant, cryogenically-cooled machine after 2011.


That's what it says doesn't it?

Are you sure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCARADb9asE
 

serious14

Well-Known Member
Bex said:
It is designed to run collisions at twice the current energy - 14 TeV, equivalent to 99.99 per cent of the speed of light.

CERN is aiming to cross that threshold with the giant, cryogenically-cooled machine after 2011.

That's what it says doesn't it?

Yesm, but it will just move onto 99.999% the speed of light.  Slightly erroneous grammar from the writer methinks.  If the beams did indeed reach the speed of light the experiment would become useless for what they're trying to achieve, 'cause the beams would cease to have mass.

(it would open up a whole new world of crazy physics shit, but render collisions unable to happen until they went back to just below the speed of light)
 

Bex

Well-Known Member
My understanding is that the beams would not cease to have mass; they would have infinite mass.

However, I just wonder whether this "faster than the speed of light" commotion is similar to the 19th century hypothesis that travelling faster than 20 mph (or some rediculously low speed) would kill you.

Why should the mass of a particle be affected by its velocity? Isn't velocity all relative anyway? If a particle is travelling at the speed of light relative to me it doesn't mean its definitely travelling at the speed of light; if I was on a planet travelling at the speed of light in the opposite direction than the particle is in fact not moving.

Then again, the whole solar system may be moving at a certain speed. So that begs the question, what is the reference point for travelling at the speed of light? And why should a certain tiny change in the particle's speed, whether it be near the speed of light or otherwise, all of a sudden change the particle from a fixed mass to an infinite mass?
 

serious14

Well-Known Member
Bex said:
My understanding is that the beams would not cease to have mass; they would have infinite mass.

Argh, my mistake.  I was referring to light itself, not the particle beams.  Forgive my dyslexic moment, you are indeed correct.

Bex said:
Why should the mass of a particle be affected by its velocity??

Objects gain mass as they speed up.  This speeding up requires energy, and the closer you get to the speed of light, the more energy required.  Good ol' Einstein calculated that by the time the speed of light was reached, infinite mass would be achieved (as you said).  Thing is, this requires infinite energy, which is not possible (as one cannot go beyond infinite).
 

Bex

Well-Known Member
Bex said:
Why should the mass of a particle be affected by its velocity? Isn't velocity all relative anyway? If a particle is travelling at the speed of light relative to me it doesn't mean its definitely travelling at the speed of light; if I was on a planet travelling at the speed of light in the opposite direction than the particle is in fact not moving.

Then again, the whole solar system may be moving at a certain speed. So that begs the question, what is the reference point for travelling at the speed of light? And why should a certain tiny change in the particle's speed, whether it be near the speed of light or otherwise, all of a sudden change the particle from a fixed mass to an infinite mass?

Any enlightenment on the rest of it?
 

serious14

Well-Known Member
Bex said:
Bex said:
Why should the mass of a particle be affected by its velocity? Isn't velocity all relative anyway? If a particle is travelling at the speed of light relative to me it doesn't mean its definitely travelling at the speed of light; if I was on a planet travelling at the speed of light in the opposite direction than the particle is in fact not moving.

Then again, the whole solar system may be moving at a certain speed. So that begs the question, what is the reference point for travelling at the speed of light? And why should a certain tiny change in the particle's speed, whether it be near the speed of light or otherwise, all of a sudden change the particle from a fixed mass to an infinite mass?

Any enlightenment on the rest of it?

Well, regarding the speed of light part..... E = mc squared, yes??  c in this regard means "constant", and the constant in this equation is the speed of light.  Hence it's use in Einstein's equation, because it is always constant, no matter how fast you/your super intergalactic spaceship are travelling.

Now, if you were travelling at say, 80% of the speed of light, and someone else was travelling at 90% of the speed of light, that's where you are correct with regards to relativity (or for that matter, any speed that isn't the speed of light). 

I (or no-one for that matter) don't know what happens when something that isn't light actually travels at that speed, so I can't answer this part of your question  - "And why should a certain tiny change in the particle's speed, whether it be near the speed of light or otherwise, all of a sudden change the particle from a fixed mass to an infinite mass?" - I'd like to be able to though.  History changing scientific breakthrough, Nobel prizes await etc.  ;)
 

Bex

Well-Known Member
Yep, it's bloody confusing really. I suggest physicists have a lot to learn in these areas. Hopefully that huge accelerator gizmo will shed some light on the subject.
 

Ted

Well-Known Member
So if breaking the speed of sound causes a sonic boom, do similar rules apply?

An intense flash of light is the result?

Would this be lethal or at least harmful to those close to it?

And, Does Santa wear red underwear?

Just thought I'd throw the last one in....
 

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