Train talk

[David Votoupal]

Here's what had me thinking about trains.

Our long-distance trains such as the Indian Pacific, Ghan and Queensland trains like the Sunlander, are highly-regarded and rank in travel circles among many people's favourite train journies.

Yet in this country, when it comes to rail services, most states here fall well behind world standards.

No need to mention how bad CityRail's services are, because most of us will have used it and know that it's something even Third World countries would be ashamed of. The strange thing is, the system isn't bad on paper- the trains are meant to provide comfort (seating) over the long-ish distances the network covers, you can get to most places, etc- yet the delivery of service has been disgustingly bad in the last decade or so.

Melbourne's trains seem to be the subject of numerous complaints from its users though I'd imagine it's not quite as bad as Sydney's. Or it may well be.

Adelaide's system is by all accounts even worse, if that's possible to imagine.

Brisbane, from the time I used it when I was up there, was definitely better- trains were cleaner, smoother and more efficient. But Perth seems to be the best-regarded, and certainly the most modern since they did a complete makeover of the network with electrification.

You look at suburban and regional rail services in Europe and Japan and see how they put ours to shame, do we have to hire consultants from Japan and Russia (whose rail systems clearly do a good job, and evidently much better than our own) to fix things up? ??? ???

 

[Part_Timer]

i think city raill needs a foriegn coach...

 

[David Votoupal]

Do you have to be a jerk all the time? You've acted like one towards me this year.

 

[jiggles]

As a regular commuter (approx 3 and a half hours a day is spent on trains...huzzah!)...all I can say is that City Rail is a bit shit. Mostly because if I stay back at work til 6...I miss my train by about 10 mins, and its the last direct train from the north shore to Gosford. Therefore I have to get a (usually) all stations from St Leonards to Hornsby (including the shit stations like Waitara and Wahroonga), then hang out at Hornsby for 25 or so minutes (usually, because I have JUST missed the train from central by about 2 minutes...) and then get a train to Gosford...and usually stopping at Pt Clare/Tascott and all those stations I don't care about.

*sigh*

Not long now...in 2 weeks I'll be workin' from home baby!

 

[fedelta]

i think city raill needs a foriegn coach...

come on mate stop being rude to DV please

 

[David Votoupal]

I'm not surprised really, there's always been this anti-intellectual streak or a high dickhead factor in places like these. Can't understand why though- it's not a good thing for football's image if it's perceived to be attracting wankers like these.

Or maybe I should just not turn up next season. I'm sick of the rudeness some people have shown to me here for doing nothing more than wanting to stimulate discussion.

 

[marinermick]

I'm not surprised really, there's always been this anti-intellectual streak or a high dickhead factor in places like these. Can't understand why though- it's not a good thing for football's image if it's perceived to be attracting wankers like these.

Or maybe I should just not turn up next season. I'm sick of the rudeness some people have shown to me here for doing nothing more than wanting to stimulate discussion.

There is a difference between stimulating discussion and labouring on the same point (foreign coaches) over and over again. You have to remember that by repeating something over and over again does not stimulate discussion nor does it make your argument any more coherent.

And, really, threatening to pack up and take your ball home, does nothing to your credibility either.

Given that this is a new topic I am happy to contribute to this discussion on trains and have some theories myself.

Australia is a large area geographically and our cities are not so dense population wise and also spread out geographically. Therefore to support a train network, and road network for that matter, means that more resources are needed to both build the infrastructure and then to support it. Hence to bulid a train system comparable to Europe we need vastly more dollars to do so.

The nations you also mention have bigger economies and as a proportion of their government spending or GDP they are investing far less in infrastructure. In dollar terms more, and given that their infrastructure needs are less the quality and maintenance of that infrastructure would far more superior.

I have also travelled by train in the smaller countries in Europe and can tell that they are either worse than cityrail or far more expensive. I paid the equivalent of thirty dollars to travel 25 kilometres from Copehagen to Roskilde, or the equivalent of sixty dollars to travel less than an hour from Lille to Brussels.

Yes, Cityrail can improve substantially but to call it worse than other countries is not understanding what is happening in other countries or have not travelled in those countries.

 

[David Votoupal]

No it's because people like Part_Timer have been abusing me a fair bit for some time now. When I started up a WCQ thread or a few of them I got some crap just for that.

To me, it shows me how rotten people can really be, that they lack any kind of decency and respect. Of course, you would never ever do that sort of thing in real life, knowing how people would react to being treated like that.

I have to ask if people really care about the public image of our game, or do they just want people to think it's a magnet for sociopathic teen/adolescent wankers who will only pull this game down in the longer term.

So hence, not showing up next season might send a message- costing the game decent fans with their wanker mentality.

 

[marinermick]

No it's because people like Part_Timer have been abusing me a fair bit for some time now. When I started up a WCQ thread or a few of them I got some crap just for that.

To me, it shows me how rotten people can really be, that they lack any kind of decency and respect. Of course, you would never ever do that sort of thing in real life, knowing how people would react to being treated like that.

I have to ask if people really care about the public image of our game, or do they just want people to think it's a magnet for sociopathic teen/adolescent wankers who will only pull this game down in the longer term.

So hence, not showing up next season might send a message- costing the game decent fans with their wanker mentality.

mate, you started six thread all about 2012 world cup qualifiers

how do you expect people to react?

doing that is either egotistical or a lack of respect for the people who have to wade through and open every topic

i actually thought the reaction from it was quite sedate

 

[dru]

I'm not surprised really, there's always been this anti-intellectual streak or a high dickhead factor in places like these. Can't understand why though- it's not a good thing for football's image if it's perceived to be attracting wankers like these.

Roflmao, It is probably more of a surprise that you have such a high rate of educated and intelligent people on here, The world over football is a working class game and as such is filled with people who through trying to escape the reality of life end up passionate about a team that plays on the weekend. A bit of reality interjected into discussions would probably make it all go a lot smoother.

Or maybe I should just not turn up next season. I'm sick of the rudeness some people have shown to me here for doing nothing more than wanting to stimulate discussion.

Almost as big as resorting to smart arse comments really.


For those that are interested on why it has turned out the way it has here is a really good article

The problem is that after the world wars the car was given precedent over public transport and the dream of a quarter acre in the suburbs was cultivated with out an appropriate amount spent on servicing the burbs with public transport. Urban renewal has not really been down anywhere in Sydney either. Be thankful that we even have the city circle line or a link from it over the harbour bridge, (TBF I think they actually called for a cross harbour tunnel rather than a bridge in 1909). Also they got approximately as far as Strathfield and went bugger this we aren't spending the money because no one is out here.

Japan's system works because they have about 6 times the population in something like 5% of the area of Australia. Also they have a network that is appropriately priced and is run by private companies. You also have to look at the history of a country that values face so hishly to see why everything there runs so damn efficently.

To have a fast train network link from Newcastle, Kariong, Sydney, Wollongong, Canberra it would run for a couple of hours in peak then have even less services during the rest of the day as simply there would be no demand for the service outside of peak times.

It is no surprise that one of the best pieces of rail in the state runs from central through the airports and costs an appropriate amount but runs frequently.

I think we should be more surprised that we haven't ended up closer to LA

 

[Blackadder]

People can say what they like about Cityrail, but keep in mind the fares you pay are that heavily subsidised by the State Govt. (Airport stations exc).
As pointed out population density doesn't warrant a service like Tokyo etc (which incidentally cover a much smaller area in terms of sq km's)

 

[David Votoupal]

Roflmao, It is probably more of a surprise that you have such a high rate of educated and intelligent people on here, The world over football is a working class game and as such is filled with people who through trying to escape the reality of life end up passionate about a team that plays on the weekend. A bit of reality interjected into discussions would probably make it all go a lot smoother.

Actually you do find a lot more intelligent football discussion on overseas forums. I care about the game and want it to grow and prosper, I only want what's best for the game.

We have to be mindful of the current climate where sport in general is under scrutiny. Football can ill-afford to be seen in a negative light, and people acting like dickheads this way only casts a negative light on things.

Almost as big as resorting to smart arse comments really.

I've every right to be indignant because of the fact a select few people persistently resort to bullying on here, particularly Craig. Not that he's likely to apologise for it anyway. I think anyone who's met me (and that's a fair few on here) will know that I'm a perfectly nice guy- and I expect the same sort of respect and courtesy regardless.

(TBF I think they actually called for a cross harbour tunnel rather than a bridge in 1909).

I think about it every time I remember being stranded in Chatswood because of the wind blowing electric cables on the Harbour Bridge.

 

[scottmac]

Actually you do find a lot more intelligent football discussion on overseas forums. I care about the game and want it to grow and prosper, I only want what's best for the game.

Right now, go and visit the blue room on the toffee's website (if you haven't already) and tell me it is more intelligent and educated than ours. If you do, then your just as full of shite as the people you are calling out.
I am sure you could search the net for prime examples of what you are talking about, but you need to accept the fact that this forum is a microcosim of the suppoerters for our team, not an elite group of intellectuals. (no offence peoples, i'm not the sharpest tool in the shed)
For instructions on how to deal with this type of dilema, go and see Kareem. That guy has copped more shite than you will ever see on this forum and he still fronts up with his opinion all the time and the forum is richer for it. Take it on the chin and don't be deterred, our forum needs all of us (and more) to remain readable.

 

[Jazzie]

Actually you do find a lot more intelligent football discussion on overseas forums. I care about the game and want it to grow and prosper, I only want what's best for the game.

Right now, go and visit the blue room on the toffee's website (if you haven't already) and tell me it is more intelligent and educated than ours. If you do, then your just as full of shite as the people you are calling out.
I am sure you could search the net for prime examples of what you are talking about, but you need to accept the fact that this forum is a microcosim of the suppoerters for our team, not an elite group of intellectuals. (no offence peoples, i'm not the sharpest tool in the shed)
For instructions on how to deal with this type of dilema, go and see Kareem. That guy has copped more shite than you will ever see on this forum and he still fronts up with his opinion all the time and the forum is richer for it. Take it on the chin and don't be deterred, our forum needs all of us (and more) to remain readable.

+1, I run a successful and lively blog in the USA (because of the subject and content which wouldn't work here) which has been going a couple of years. The point of having a forum is having people of all walks of life expressing their views. By opening a topic you can't expect everyone to hold the same values of yourself. A minority of bloggers will hide behind the cutrain of anonymity to be either bullies or idiots. What isn't acceptable to you, just ignore and get over it. Having said that, I find the Marinator's forum one of the best I have come across in terms of good naturedness (is there such a word?). I post now and then, and don't get many responses to my comments, but that doesn't worry me much. I'm just glad I have somewhere to vent or say something in regards to the CC Mariners, however idiotic it may seem to others.

 

[midfielder]

I'm not surprised really, there's always been this anti-intellectual streak or a high dickhead factor in places like these. Can't understand why though- it's not a good thing for football's image if it's perceived to be attracting wankers like these.

Or maybe I should just not turn up next season. I'm sick of the rudeness some people have shown to me here for doing nothing more than wanting to stimulate discussion.

David I hope this helps and you take it in the spirit in which I am posting that is not to have a go at you but to hopefully allow you to see another point of view.

The problem I have have with the constant technical argument above all others is ... what makes Fozza for example think no ones else understands the technical issues... do you honestly believe Frank Lowy does not understand or is aware of our technical problems or our CEO .. that is the purpose of the COE... However we are constantly told something we already know and many have been doing something about for the last five years... Read the posts on this site about some of our games and you will understand almost everybody on this site and almost everybody in Football in Australia today at any meaningful level is aware of the issues and have been for quite a while..

Look at the following link about what the FFA are doing ... http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/2009InsideFFA/default.aspx?s=insideffa_newsfeature_features_item_new&id=27859  explain how to improve it within limited budgets that FFA have to work with...

So what gets people annoyed is this assumption that all this stuff is really important news .. like we don't know ... but then look at the youth league .. look at the above link ...

Now here is the challenge ... most acknowledge the problem I certainly do... but I have faith in Frank Lowy and the FFA  to correct it and they are ... so the sky is not falling a lot is being done..... that SBS because of a turf war and having the shits because they feel they should have more because of there past history ... hardly ever report this does not mean they are right...

Essentially there are a lot of very experienced Football and technical Football on football forums and this forum is no different ... thus whether Fozza wants to run an agenda or not does not report what is being done means fark all ... Fozza does what Les Murry tells him to do ... But the changes being made will not impact in any meaningful way for another 15 years... Screaming will not quicken the process...just get folk offside .... mate we knew years ago that why we pissed off the NSL and look at what is actually being done...

Finally if you want to start blaming someone ... look no further than the old NSL clubs and the system they developed that was corrupt, have inept management, bankrupt both morally and financially ... then look at what is being done in very quick time TBH and  acknowledge the COE using the training methods of the Brazilian San Polo is not a bad starting point ...

Sorry if I lecture but please understand most understand the problem.

 

[FFC Mariner]

I hate NSW trains and will do whatever I can to avoid them

Simple answer, more trains, more comfort, more hot spots, faster and more reliable and I might use them

Till then - I'll drive

 

[Jazzie]

Midfielder, glad you said all that ... +1. It's been a long day and having trouble getting my brain around the subject .... going for a zzzzzzzzzzzzz.

 

[David Votoupal]

I don't think the comfort of trains- as in the fact more than adequate seating is provided, and better still on interurban trains as on the V sets that go to the Blue Mountains, Central Coast, etc. It's the efficiency of services, which are prone to delays and numerous failures, never mind the cleanliness of trains among other issues.

+1, I run a successful and lively blog in the USA (because of the subject and content which wouldn't work here) which has been going a couple of years. The point of having a forum is having people of all walks of life expressing their views. By opening a topic you can't expect everyone to hold the same values of yourself. A minority of bloggers will hide behind the cutrain of anonymity to be either bullies or idiots. What isn't acceptable to you, just ignore and get over it. Having said that, I find the Marinator's forum one of the best I have come across in terms of good naturedness (is there such a word?). I post now and then, and don't get many responses to my comments, but that doesn't worry me much. I'm just glad I have somewhere to vent or say something in regards to the CC Mariners, however idiotic it may seem to others.

The way I see things, the football community in Australia is one where people do get around and meeting people is inevitable. Because of this, and my own past life experiences, I have very little to no tolerance for anybody behaving like a dickhead.

What Craig did was reply like the way he's always been- a jerk. And I won't let it rest until he apologises for acting like a jerk.

 

[Part_Timer]

reported for personal attack.

 

[kevrenor]

reported for personal attack.

Will you two get a room? - or take it to PM