Re: Petrol, Food, Interest Rates, Alcohol - where will it end!

[From the dug out]

Ok without trying to be political.....where will we be in the not too distant future regarding price increases? I am starting to get really worried about just keeping ends meat! Can't remember the day when I had a savings account.

This hasn't come down in the last shower (meaning since last November) so where is it coming from?

Regardless of who is steering the ship, it seems as if the leaders have no control over these issues. Haven't we got a huge surplus? Can we not invent other alternatives other than fossil fuels?

This is getting really bad.....love to know your thoughts Dibo? along with others?

The Uncanny X-Men......."Where will we be in 50 years", has just entered my head.

Well done to the 2000 odd supporters who have already become mariner members. I for one hope to be amongst you all, however that will be decided down the track.

 

[skilbeck]

petrol and food are both classic supply and demand issues. these prices are high due to the fact the world population is too high and this creates incredible strain on all resources including the key ones of petrol and food. People are working on alternative fuels. but we have to understand the shear magnitude of the energy that is being used by the human race and hence the FF's being burnt. Fossil Fuels are plant and animal matter that has built up over billions of years containing billions of years worth of stored energy from the sun. The human race has used a large proportion of these fuels in 200 years. This is a high rate of energy consumption compared to what is stored in the earth.

If all the worlds fossil fuels resources are exhausted, it will force the human race backwards into a pre-industrial age and this is indirectly linked to food production. In the early-mid part of last century due to the use of heavy machinery, agricultural production and grain yields was massively increased and this meant that the worlds population was able to grow shitloads and without fossil fuels this could doom a large proportion of the human race.

As for renewables, they are inherently going to be more expensive than fossil fuels, at the moment, due to the fact that it relies on the capture of energy from the sun as it is being radiated, or a few energy transformations after that i.e. solar, biomass, wind, hydroelectricity etc. Methods of collecting this energy are relatively inefficient and I guess thats where the work in renewables is going. The problem is, once fossil fuels are more expensive than renewables, than renewables will be used on large scale but petrol prices need to rise heaps before this happens.

As for budget surplus's, due to the fact that currency is not fixed against any particular resource, a surplus means SFA as the rise in petrol prices and food prices is just creating an inflationary period where the currency is being devalued compared to fuel as well as other commodities. Spending the surplus on cutting fuel prices can be done but it is a band aid solution and we will be back to square 1 in a few years

 

[From the dug out]

Great reply, thanks skillbeck.

So is there any light at the end of the tunnel?

 

[skilbeck]

not in the short term, it looks pretty grim, but i am an alarmist and there are other more optimistic people on the forum

 

[skilbeck]

whatever the case is people, you have to remember that this is not the fault of any political movement (in Australia at least) and therefore its not something you can pin blame for on Howard, Rudd, Nelson, or Iemma etc

 

[scottmac]

F**kin Howard the b**tard, its all his fault with his bloody eyebrows!!

;D ;D ;D

 

[Pokes]

Bunnies!
Rainbows!
Yay!

*sprinkles optimism and happiness over skilbeck*

Meh, all I know is that I'm thankful my little Hippo Car doesn't take too much fuel...I'm more concerned about City Rails' threats the up the rail fares at least twice this year.... *sigh*

 

[Alicia]

I have to say I'm quite lucky in the petrol department as work pays for that.  However I'm waiting for the day when they tell me I'm spending too much money on petrol.  I filled up Tuesday and it cost $75.  Due to the distance I travel, I have to fill up every 4 days.

 

[T]

I have to say I'm quite lucky in the petrol department as work pays for that.  However I'm waiting for the day when they tell me I'm spending too much money on petrol.  I filled up Tuesday and it cost $75.  Due to the distance I travel, I have to fill up every 4 days.

If they bitch and complain just give them the comparisson for filling up a larger car, I filled up on Tues and it cost me $55 as opposed to my housemate whose petrol bill was $95.

 

[skilbeck]

*sprinkles optimism and happiness over skilbeck*

Meh, all I know is that I'm thankful my little Hippo Car doesn't take too much fuel...I'm more concerned about City Rails' threats the up the rail fares at least twice this year.... *sigh*

Whats happiness Pokey? Isnt that one of those things u only experience if ur a kid on christmas

but seriously im in the same boat as you in that my car runs on fumes which is a good thing, but i can foresee a day when if you live on the coast, weekly commutes to sydney plus other expenses will exceed incomes

 

[From the dug out]

whatever the case is people, you have to remember that this is not the fault of any political movement (in Australia at least) and therefore its not something you can pin blame for on Howard, Rudd, Nelson, or Iemma etc

Agreed, that was the angle I wanted to be coming from....not blaming either party, just concerned where it will lead to.

Weekly expenses on fuel for my family is $210.00, it makes me Literally

 

[skilbeck]

if petrol prices raise 4 fold then that exceeds the average Australian wage for a commuter, and there is a real possibility that will happen

 

[Pokes]

Happiness is this weird thing...it mostly appears on weekends though...

 

[skilbeck]

Happiness is this weird thing...it mostly appears on weekends though...

weeeekenddd?????

You mean theres 2 days off when you dont have to do any work?

 

[serious14]

Next time someone tells you that 'our petrol price is determined by the price of Oil in the Middle East", call poppycock on them.  The price of oil/petrol in Australia is determined by the Singapore price index which takes care of said issue, in addition to importation fees/government excise taxes/GST.

Not only are we one of the most taxed countries in the world with regards to goods, but our location never helps when it comes to getting things cheap.  We're a long way from...... well, everyone.  I tell you what, it isn't cheap to send those supertankers over here.  Then there's the cost of refining it.  Blah blah etc.

Still, there's no excuse for the price of oil being as high as it is right now.  The profit margins that OPEC and the Oil Companies are experiencing are in the hundreds of percentage points mark - they could easily cut the price of oil in half overnight and still make a multi billion dollar proft....... but of course, they don't want to.  They use any old excuse in the book:

"Oh yes, that _potential_ hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico TOTALLY affects oil production in Saudi Arabia".  Bullshit like that.

 

[skilbeck]

Its the supply and demand issue serious, if there is a lack of supply and people are willing to pay shitloads to run their cars then oil companies and OPEC can charge whatever they want. Im sure that everyone can sniff out a cartel from 1000's of miles away, I know I can but the fact of the matter is that oil is running out and that regardless prices would be increasing and if there was a price drop tomorrow due to leglislation, the rate at which oil would be used would only skyrocket and that would mean we use it up quicker. Also there are many key industries, not just energy and transportation that are linked to fossil fuels. i.e. plastics come from oil, they dont pull plastics out of my arse and these other important industries are also tied to the petroleum industry

 

[FFC Mariner]

Wait until we get the carbon trading scheme..............

Whilst most of the current pain would be unavoidable by any government, Wayne Swan hasnt a freakin clue.

For a view of your future, just look at Iemma and his team.

 

[serious14]

Skillbeck - well aware of the supply/demand side of things, but there's more oil out there than they're willing to let on.  We have a _massive_ reserve in the Coral Sea, alongside the gas reserve that they're already tapping.  There's goodness knows how much in Northern Canada, underneath the Arctic, and underneath Antarctica that they've scouted out.  Not to mention the 100 - 150 years worth in the Azerbaijani area of the world.  (which I personally think will cause World War 3 around the 2030 mark)

Now whilst I'm not saying "hey, let's start drilling these environmentally protected areas" right now - it is an option that is there in the future.

Not to mention the price fixing that OPEC engages in.  It's well know that they cap the production at a certain limit per day, in order to artificially heighten the price in conjunction with their little "oh, violence in Nigeria means that the Singapore Index will rise" rubbish.  This structure is very similar to the one practiced by the diamond industry.  There exists a lot more precious diamonds than are actually on the market - they're kept in storage by the diamond cartel in order to create an artificial demand.

Greenpole - so in the future, we'll be stuck with Iguana-gate type scandals forever more??

 

[loyalist]

i blame rudd for all of the above rises

 

[BrisRecky]

ummmm havent we got oil wells / platforms off the W.A coast???...if so why aint we using them for us??