Promotion / Relegation

[Redline]

I did a search, but couldn't find a thread discussing this  by itself...I know it's come up in other threads from time to time.

At what point do you think they will bring in promotion/relegation? 16 teams? 20 teams? Or will they use some sort of 'Second Tier System" involving the State Premier Leagues, winner being promoted into the HAL and the bottom of the HAL being relegated into the SPL?

In a lot of ways, it would make sense to use 16 teams. The season prior, where there presumably be 14 teams, the bottom 6 of that season are automatically relegated into the second division, and the 2 new teams (15 and 16) make up the 8 for the division....we'd be back to square one in terms of number of games played (unless something was done to increase the number of teams we had going to ACL), or unless the talk of a national FFA Cup (similar the FA Cup in England) came to fruition...there would be a lot of conditions that would need to be satisfied for it to happen.

What's everyone's thoughts on the subject? I hope everyone agrees that it needs to happen at some point...just a matter of when?

 

[Sacko]

Too big a country for a 2nd tier, hence it hasn't happened in the other codes

 

[Arabmariner]

It could happen down the track but I think it would have to be some sort of regionalised thing.A bit like the lower tiers in places like England and Germany.

 

[Redline]

How does that work??

 

[David Votoupal]

Germany has introduced a national third division. England has had four national divisions since 1958, and the Conference is a national 5th tier.

 

[dibo]

conferences were used for some time in the NSL, but there would have to be a serious body of reform in the second tier. i've no beefs with ethnic clubs, i do have a beef with corruption, mismanagment and amateur hour antics.

some very serious business requirements would need to be put in place for people to get a licence to compete in the second tier much as with the first tier.

given the huge issues that NSW has had with the NSWPL restructure a few years ago, the craziness with wollongong and st george going to court to try to stop the whole shebang and the following issues with bonnyrigg and so on, plus the VPL having ongoing issues between their various clubs... there's a lot of work that would need to be done.

while the 'contre al calcio moderno' kids will rail against it, i think the second tier clubs would benefit from access to the FFA's marketing and commercial clout. things like coordinated kits, sponsorship and marketing frameworks, professional management and some sort of administrative assistance would be good.

clubs like sydney united are great factories for players, but they struggle to go a step beyond that. the FFA's help would get them in the mix again. But they'd have to be able to do the work on their end to broaden their appeal and make. If they run short of money or support they should go down.

there'd be serious questions about how you manage teams that are relegated and their player contracts and salary levels compared to the teams in the second flight. i can't see us getting rid of the salary cap (more like we'd be implementing it at the second tier as well) but i can't see a way we'd be able to work the salary cap with promotion and relegation.

 

[Redline]

conferences were used for some time in the NSL, but there would have to be a serious body of reform in the second tier.

Conferences as in NBA style?

given the huge issues that NSW has had with the NSWPL restructure a few years ago, the craziness with wollongong and st george going to court to try to stop the whole shebang and the following issues with bonnyrigg and so on, plus the VPL having ongoing issues between their various clubs... there's a lot of work that would need to be done.

Being that I've not actually played football in over 10 years, and never really got into football until the HAL (rugby league house)...whats the issues that need to be dealt with? OR would that require a War and Peace post?

 

[kevrenor]

Being that I've not actually played football in over 10 years, and never really got into football until the HAL (rugby league house)...whats the issues that need to be dealt with? OR would that require a War and Peace post?

About Encyclopaedia Britannica size post

 

[Redline]

Being that I've not actually played football in over 10 years, and never really got into football until the HAL (rugby league house)...whats the issues that need to be dealt with? OR would that require a War and Peace post?

About Encyclopaedia Britannica size post

Whistles...wow...now Im intrigued.

 

[dibo]

..the problem with draining the pond is that sometimes only the hardiest of scumsucking bottom dwellers remain...

 

[Arabmariner]

Germany has introduced a national third division. England has had four national divisions since 1958, and the Conference is a national 5th tier.

I think beyond the Conference it becomes regionalised doesn't it?

And it's regionalised in Germany beyond the new 3rd Div?

 

[dibo]

Germany has introduced a national third division. England has had four national divisions since 1958, and the Conference is a national 5th tier.

I think beyond the Conference it becomes regionalised doesn't it?

And it's regionalised in Germany beyond the new 3rd Div?

it's also fair to say that regionalisation allowed the participating sides and the competition as a whole to develop such that in the end, regional comps served as a precursor to the national competitions. that would be the *ambition* here, but i really doubt we've got anything like the basic business structures in place to be able to sustain a national second flight here.

 

[fruitbat]

I did a search, but couldn't find a thread discussing this  by itself...I know it's come up in other threads from time to time.

At what point do you think they will bring in promotion/relegation? 16 teams? 20 teams? Or will they use some sort of 'Second Tier System" involving the State Premier Leagues, winner being promoted into the HAL and the bottom of the HAL being relegated into the SPL?

In a lot of ways, it would make sense to use 16 teams. The season prior, where there presumably be 14 teams, the bottom 6 of that season are automatically relegated into the second division, and the 2 new teams (15 and 16) make up the 8 for the division....we'd be back to square one in terms of number of games played (unless something was done to increase the number of teams we had going to ACL), or unless the talk of a national FFA Cup (similar the FA Cup in England) came to fruition...there would be a lot of conditions that would need to be satisfied for it to happen.

What's everyone's thoughts on the subject? I hope everyone agrees that it needs to happen at some point...just a matter of when?

I have also been thinking about it.
Positives include
1. Exposure of premier league players to the big time when their club is promoted.(These guys may have been overlooked for HAL contracts and the talent pool is currently shallow.)
2.Greater motivation for teams to perform to escape relegation.

Down sides
1.The gap in quality between HAL and Premier league. (However this should mean relegation is short-term as you would expect them to be promoted again next season).
2.Sponors would flee the relegated club.
3. Good players would flee the relegated club.

 

[Paolo]

Down sides
1.The gap in quality between HAL and Premier league. (However this should mean relegation is short-term as you would expect them to be promoted again next season).
2.Sponors would flee the relegated club.
3. Good players would flee the relegated club.

4. majority of fans would flee the relegated club

 

[Arabmariner]

Down sides
1.The gap in quality between HAL and Premier league. (However this should mean relegation is short-term as you would expect them to be promoted again next season).
2.Sponors would flee the relegated club.
3. Good players would flee the relegated club.

4. majority of fans would flee the relegated club

Then flee back when top of Div 2 and being promoted!

Oh and top avatar!

 

[midfielder]

conferences were used for some time in the NSL, but there would have to be a serious body of reform in the second tier. i've no beefs with ethnic clubs, i do have a beef with corruption, mismanagment and amateur hour antics.

some very serious business requirements would need to be put in place for people to get a licence to compete in the second tier much as with the first tier.

given the huge issues that NSW has had with the NSWPL restructure a few years ago, the craziness with wollongong and st george going to court to try to stop the whole shebang and the following issues with bonnyrigg and so on, plus the VPL having ongoing issues between their various clubs... there's a lot of work that would need to be done.

while the 'contre al calcio moderno' kids will rail against it, i think the second tier clubs would benefit from access to the FFA's marketing and commercial clout. things like coordinated kits, sponsorship and marketing frameworks, professional management and some sort of administrative assistance would be good.

clubs like sydney united are great factories for players, but they struggle to go a step beyond that. the FFA's help would get them in the mix again. But they'd have to be able to do the work on their end to broaden their appeal and make. If they run short of money or support they should go down.

there'd be serious questions about how you manage teams that are relegated and their player contracts and salary levels compared to the teams in the second flight. i can't see us getting rid of the salary cap (more like we'd be implementing it at the second tier as well) but i can't see a way we'd be able to work the salary cap with promotion and relegation.

Good summary of our recent past we do not want to revisit.

IMO we will have an a-League and a B-League made up of 20 to 22 teams with 12 to 14 in the A-League with the reminder in the B-League very similar to Japan BTW this is at least 2 media away for the funding needed to run.

The other thing which will involve the old NSL clubs will be a FA cup style knock out comp as I understand from media reports some time ago about maybe only 5 to 6 years away...

 

[midfielder]

All time summary of points earned and games played by all A-League / NSL clubs this may show some of the teams capable of playing http://vulgar.com.au/libero/alltimensl.html  interesting table for those interested in history BTW

Shows the Scum have played 186 games ...so there must be some prior history ..