FFA heel dragging scuttles ambitious Marconi scheme

[curious]

Questions that come to mind are, is the FFA running interference? If so, what are the motives? Is the FFA executive basing decisions on merit, in the best interest of the code or personal agenda?

   

Out of Africa? FFA heel dragging scuttles ambitious Marconi scheme

MICHAEL COCKERILL
April 21, 2010

After six years of neglect, second-tier football in Australia is on the edge of a precipice. Grand old clubs - yes, many of them with ethnic heritage - are running faster and faster on a treadmill to nowhere, and sooner rather than later they're going to fall off. Crossing the great divide between ''old soccer'' and ''new football'' remains a bridge too far for Football Federation Australia. Lip service has been paid to re-uniting the game, but nothing is done. And in the meantime the foundation under the A-League looks increasingly like it's made of sand.

So when a second-tier club - one as storied, as successful, and as progressive as Marconi Stallions - wants to take charge of its own destiny, you'd think College Street would breathe a sigh of relief. One less problem for head office to deal with.

Last year, the Stallions decided to try and re-invent themselves as a club of relevance after muddling along in the semi-obscurity of the NSW Premier League. Three African players were imported, one Iraqi was embraced, with the idea that Bossley Park would become a staging post for young foreign players to showcase themselves for the A-League, and beyond. A roundabout way to get to Europe, perhaps, but one which promised enormous benefits for the local game.

Marconi coach Lee Sterrey has worked at the highest level in Australia, and knows the standard required. Player agent and former Socceroos midfielder Vlado Bozinovski played most of his career in Europe, and is an equally qualified judge of talent. With the backing of the Stallions board, these two put the program in place, and three Cote d'Ivoire youngsters - Ousmane Toure, Vamara Diarra and Adama Traore - were flown out. Iraqi international Ali Abbas - a political refugee - was already here.

The strategy was a massive success. Traore didn't even make it to Bossley Park, detouring immediately to Gold Coast United where he was one of the stars of their debut season. But the Marconi faithful - among the most discerning supporters in the country - did get to savour the other three imports putting on a show. Abbas eventually got his chance with Newcastle Jets halfway through the last A-League season, and has since earned a permanent contract. Diarra and Toure completed the NSWPL season with the Stallions, but both had been earmarked as potential A-League recruits.

Sadly, they won't get the chance. Last year, Marconi didn't need a supporting letter from the FFA to secure sporting visas. This year, they do. Toure, 19, and Diarra, 21, have been training in Abidjan since last November on a pre-season program designed by Bozinovski and Sterrey. There they were joined by another Cote d'Ivoire youngster, Aguy Tape, 21, and a Cameroon striker Ali Maxim Yamgue, also 21. Four exciting African youngsters hoping to kick-start their careers with Marconi Stallions, leading to the opportunity to play in the A-League. An A-League desperately in need of good quality foreign talent, especially young talent. A win-win, you would think.

Wrong. The FFA have repeatedly refused to give Marconi a letter of support, one which identifies the four players as of A-League standard. For five months, the quartet have been training and waiting in Cote d'Ivoire, eager to get on the plane. Now they're going nowhere, their dreams of a sporting visa in tatters. The NSWPL season is eight weeks old, and time has simply run out. Marconi took the painful decision last week to cut their losses, which includes thousands of dollars spent on an immigration agent. This is a club with an impeccable track record of bringing players to Australia. Marconi's reward for a brilliant initiative is a slap in the face.

''We're bitterly disappointed,'' says Stallions chairman Vince Foti. ''We did everything by the book, but all the time, effort, and money has gone down the drain. It's probably the end of the experiment for us, and I'm at a loss to know why the FFA have done what they have. The game at all levels will suffer because of it.''

So no shop window at Bossley Park, no pipeline of African talent for the A-League, and even less reason for second-tier clubs to exist. The FFA needs to get a grip on the disaster unfolding before their eyes. It's a disgrace.

 

[Jesus]

Questions that come to mind are, is the FFA running interference? If so, what are the motives? Is the FFA executive basing decisions on merit, in the best interest of the code or personal agenda?

   

Wrong. The FFA have repeatedly refused to give Marconi a letter of support, one which identifies the four players as of A-League standard.

My guess is this is the key sentence.

The FFA probably say 4 young africans, 2 they have not seen play, 2 who played in the State league, and were not offered a-league contracts, are not up to a-league standard.

Id presume that if the FFA said they were, and continued that line with young africans for a few years the Dept of Immigration might not be too happy.


The real problem here is that the Immigration Department now says that for a player to come to this country they must be a minimum a-league standard.

Maybe Clive was right? He was ranting about the troubles in bringing in young african players. Maybe this is what he meant. The FFA not willing to rubber stamp for the clubs to bypass Immigration?

Interesting to see if this is now a requirement on all players, or just africans as Clive suggested.

 

[curious]

I'd suggest that Lee Sterrey is as smart and trusted talent scout as anyone in this country. The FFA administration, it appears, regard themselves as a better judge of talent, be it convenient or otherwise.  If the same had applied to the others last year, we would not have seen Traore here on trial and not had the best young attacking defender in the competition. I cannot understand the theory that a young player must be of aleague standard, when we don't know that without seeing them first hand, other than to trust a respected judge. The theory would eliminate the majority of young oversees players from trials. A sporting visa is just that btw.  No temporary residency status applies and no short cuts involved.

This perhaps infers that the FFA's version of Palmer's past complaint might not have been entirely correct.

Edit....meant to say Lee Sterrey, not Ian Crook.

 

[Jesus]

I'd suggest that Lee Sterrey is as smart and trusted talent scout as anyone in this country. The FFA administration, it appears, regard themselves as a better judge of talent, be it convenient or otherwise.  If the same had applied to the others last year, we would not have seen Traore here on trial and not had the best young attacking defender in the competition. I cannot understand the theory that a young player must be of aleague standard, when we don't know that without seeing them first hand, other than to trust a respected judge. The theory would eliminate the majority of young oversees players from trials. A sporting visa is just that btw.  No temporary residency status applies and no short cuts involved.

This perhaps infers that the FFA's version of Palmer's past complaint might not have been entirely correct.

Edit....meant to say Lee Sterrey, not Ian Crook.

A sporting Visa is a working visa. Since they will get paid.

I dont think this is an FFA problem, unless the FFA has been told by the government that they dont mind the FFA simply rubber stamping anyone without consequence.

The need for them to be a-league standard is not an FFA directive. It is an immigration directive.

Maybe it is all the point, the govt may not feel it necessary to offer youngsters from overseas a spot presumably at the expense of a young australian in a team.

If that is the case then perhaps the FFA needs to change their mind.

Assuming the article is accurate.

It is devoid of comment, or suggestion of approaching the FFA or imigration for comment or clarification

 

[priorpeter]

Immigration rules state that in order to obtain a Subclass 421 (Sport) Visa:

The Minister is satisfied that:
(a)
the sport sponsor and the identified visa holder or applicant have entered into a formal arrangement that provides for the identified visa holder or applicant to be a player, a coach or an instructor in relation to an Australian sporting team or sporting organisation; and
(b)
the formal arrangement specifies the period during which the identified visa holder or applicant will be a player, a coach or an instructor in relation to the Australian team or organisation; and
(c)
the arrangement will be of benefit to the sport in Australia; and
(d)
the identified visa holder or applicant has an established reputation in the field of sport; and
(e)
the sport sponsor has provided a letter of endorsement from the relevant Australian national sporting body, certifying that:
(i)
the identified visa holder or applicant has the ability to play, coach or instruct at the Australian national level; and
(ii)
the participation of the identified visa holder or applicant in the sport in Australia would benefit the sport in Australia by raising the standard of competition.

I'm no migration agent, but I suppose that if the players in question do not have an established reputation, obviously that is going to impact negatively on their application. Also, if The Minister is not certain that it will be of benefit to the sport, this will also count against them.

 

[curious]

I'm no migration agent, but I suppose that if the players in question do not have an established reputation, obviously that is going to impact negatively on their application. Also, if The Minister is not certain that it will be of benefit to the sport, this will also count against them.

That sounds rational until you think about all the foreign players that arrive to trial for contracts, most of them failing, and all the foreign players that have their contracts cut very short and failed. All with the ffa rubber stamp needed for their sports visa application approval. The immigration department acts on the advice of the relevant governing authority, now the FFA. They don't do or have the expertise to do their own investigation into suitability. ( gawd...it would take them a month of Sundays and still get it wrong)

The difference now to only last year is previously the state federations had the authority to approve imported players to their respective comps/clubs and that has till now been recognised by the immigration department in their approval process. The FFA in their wisdom have now removed that authority and taken it upon themselves to force the Federations to receive the FFA's approval by nominating themselves as the only approving authority.  Best kiss my butt if you want my approval.

BTW.....in the case of these African guys, their visa application has more than likely not been lodged, as the ffa consent/approval is a compulsory requirement in the application. Immigration agents would be well aware that without it, you wouldn't bother with the application fee.

 

[FFC Mariner]

I just wonder how the FFA approval process would have gone if it was an HAL club trying to get visas for these guys?

Call me a cynic, but sooner or later, the ethnic based clubs might just realise that they will never get anything from the FFA that helps them.

I'm not arguing the rights and wrongs of it, it just seems that there is never going to be a place for the old Sokka clubs.

I reckon if we ever build the CoE (remember that?) and decided to bring in some kids from Africa/Asia then the whole process might just be a bit easier.

But then I am a cynic (rarely wrong but still a cynic)

 

[curious]

You're not the only cynic.

I think the ffa are shooting themselves in the foot re the old nsl clubs. It's a big, big part of the aussie game to remove.  This might not be the best analogy, but think for a moment if the nrl or afl was to decide to remove and basically disenfranchise their existing clubs and with it the existing support that took years to build, push the various state leagues they played under onto a dusty shelf labelled "of no future value" and refuse to allow them in any way to be part of the future of the game they started. Then continue to lead them to believe they will always be unwanted. 

They could form a new comp, but they would have to do it by leaving the majority of the game's support not wanting a bar of it. It would split the sports into two factions with both pulling in different directions.


Bit of a rant and a rusty analogy, but I do believe the baby was thrown out with the bathwater after the Crawford report, when a less divisive approach might have achieved a better long term outcome with everyone attempting to pull in the same direction. Without hanging out the unwelcome sign for a large proportion of Australian supporters. I also think the FFA are fools if the divisiveness is allowed to continue when a carefully considered inclusive approach could have a far more advantageous outcome for the game.

 

[Jesus]

I just wonder how the FFA approval process would have gone if it was an HAL club trying to get visas for these guys?

Call me a cynic, but sooner or later, the ethnic based clubs might just realise that they will never get anything from the FFA that helps them.

I'm not arguing the rights and wrongs of it, it just seems that there is never going to be a place for the old Sokka clubs.

I reckon if we ever build the CoE (remember that?) and decided to bring in some kids from Africa/Asia then the whole process might just be a bit easier.

But then I am a cynic (rarely wrong but still a cynic)

It is getting harder to bring in young players under 18 everywhere, or is supposed to be via FIFA

 

[Jesus]

the identified visa holder or applicant has the ability to play, coach or instruct at the Australian national level; and
(ii)
the participation of the identified visa holder or applicant in the sport in Australia would benefit the sport in Australia by raising the standard of competition.

[/quote]

I would think these 2 are the main issue. If they are going to 2nd tier, they are not currently considered to have the ability to play in the top tier.

The 2nd would be hard to prove that bringing in an african to play in state league is going to improve the quality of the a-league.

 

[Jesus]

I'm no migration agent, but I suppose that if the players in question do not have an established reputation, obviously that is going to impact negatively on their application. Also, if The Minister is not certain that it will be of benefit to the sport, this will also count against them.

That sounds rational until you think about all the foreign players that arrive to trial for contracts, most of them failing, and all the foreign players that have their contracts cut very short and failed. All with the ffa rubber stamp needed for their sports visa application approval. The immigration department acts on the advice of the relevant governing authority, now the FFA. They don't do or have the expertise to do their own investigation into suitability. ( gawd...it would take them a month of Sundays and still get it wrong)

The difference now to only last year is previously the state federations had the authority to approve imported players to their respective comps/clubs and that has till now been recognised by the immigration department in their approval process. The FFA in their wisdom have now removed that authority and taken it upon themselves to force the Federations to receive the FFA's approval by nominating themselves as the only approving authority.  Best kiss my butt if you want my approval.

BTW.....in the case of these African guys, their visa application has more than likely not been lodged, as the ffa consent/approval is a compulsory requirement in the application. Immigration agents would be well aware that without it, you wouldn't bother with the application fee.

It is legally their responsibility. One wonders if
a) their lawyers mentioned that technically the dept might  be able to hold them accountable for dodgy players ding the runner.
b) the dept said it wants the FFa to handle it as said in the law, and that it will no longer accept players to state leagues from overseas.
c) the FFA have decided on their own that they dont want foreign players playing in lower divisions/taking a place of an aussie etc

Assuming that therehas been no change in the legal framework for it

 

[dibo]

Immigration rules state that in order to obtain a Subclass 421 (Sport) Visa:

The Minister is satisfied that:
(i)
the identified visa holder or applicant has the ability to play, coach or instruct at the Australian national level; and
(ii)
the participation of the identified visa holder or applicant in the sport in Australia would benefit the sport in Australia by raising the standard of competition.

If Marconi (a state club) is looking to sign them, the Minister has no reason to think they're at national-level standard.

Why should the FFA take Marconi and Lee Sterrey's word for it? Marconi aren't playing at the national level any more and if Sterrey were still a 'national level' coach, he'd have a gig in the HAL by now.

If it were a HAL club asking, then obviously they are deemed by the national-level club that they are national-level players and they pass through that hoop.

The implication is pretty clear - visas won't be issued for players for state league clubs. Unless they start playing in the HAL, I wouldn't expect this to change. It's not a matter of favouritism, it's the immigration regulations.

 

[curious]

Can you explain why, if the immigration laws haven't altered in the period, and not being able to find any applicable amendment I have no reason the believe they have, how Marconi were able to obtain visas for the 3 African players last year, only one of which had youth international experience?

Could I perhaps believe that the only change is in FFA policy as you allude to?

 

[Jesus]

Can you explain why, if the immigration laws haven't altered in the period, and not being able to find any applicable amendment I have no reason the believe they have, how Marconi were able to obtain visas for the 3 African players last year, only one of which had youth international experience?

Could I perhaps believe that the only change is in FFA policy as you allude to?

Maybe the department had a word to the FFA about the dodgy sports visas for players who were obviously not up to standard?

 

[goingtoadisco]

Personally getting a little bit sick of the ffa bashing.

How many world cups did We get too with old sokka ?

How was our national league run ?

Gone are the dark days when these clubs ran the system, while the FFA are far from perfect its goo riddance imo. 

 

[elevated position]

Thinking a bit to left field I wonder it it the rational ties in with the rule change regarding our yoof playing in overseas.
Also with CCM trying to get a PL side on the coast would that mean we would (via the pathway) have carte blanche to any of these players??

 

[priorpeter]

Can you explain why, if the immigration laws haven't altered in the period, and not being able to find any applicable amendment I have no reason the believe they have, how Marconi were able to obtain visas for the 3 African players last year, only one of which had youth international experience?

Could I perhaps believe that the only change is in FFA policy as you allude to?

Can confirm the legislation was amended in February.

 

[curious]

Personally getting a little bit sick of the ffa bashing.

Then, don't bash them and take an aspirin if others do.

How many world cups did We get too with old sokka ?

Not relevant to the existing issue.

How was our national league run ?


Not relevant to the existing issue.

Gone are the dark days when these clubs ran the system, while the FFA are far from perfect its goo riddance imo. 

And I agree with the basis of your sentiment. I cannot agree with the perpetual good riddance to all the state league clubs, the second tier of football, from any significance in Australian football if the continued fragmentation of football support in this country is the result. I believe a cooperative inclusive approach reaps rewards and defensive exclusion reaps resentment. And I do believe the FFA operates from a centralised defensive bunker and appears to adding more sand bags each week.
One Aspirin, or two?

 

[curious]

Can confirm the legislation was amended in February.

Have you a link and are you aware of what part/s were amended?

 

[Jesus]

Personally getting a little bit sick of the ffa bashing.

Then, don't bash them and take an aspirin if others do.

How many world cups did We get too with old sokka ?

Not relevant to the existing issue.

How was our national league run ?


Not relevant to the existing issue.

Gone are the dark days when these clubs ran the system, while the FFA are far from perfect its goo riddance imo. 

And I agree with the basis of your sentiment. I cannot agree with the perpetual good riddance to all the state league clubs, the second tier of football, from any significance in Australian football if the continued fragmentation of football support in this country is the result. I believe a cooperative inclusive approach reaps rewards and defensive exclusion reaps resentment. And I do believe the FFA operates from a centralised defensive bunker and appears to adding more sand bags each week.
One Aspirin, or two?

I think you will find that juniour players numbers far exceed state league clubs fans, old nsl ethnic or whatever.

The FFA needs to get the players in. Ex nsl fans largely follow the a-league. Ex nsl clubs are owed nothing by the FFA who has had to come in and clean the mess they made.

That said the FFA is not in a defensive position with regards to these clubs. But i think they are being sensible with their dealings.

No ethnic clubs in a-league is essential.

The FFA has little other involvement with these clubs as they deal with their state feds.

Until the state feds come into line with crawford, why should state league clubs, who have voting rights with the state feds, be given some special treatment or olive branch?

I am yet to see any suggestion that the FFA gives 2 f**ks about putting down the ex nsl clubs.

Just because they dont praise them, which they shouldnt IMO, doesnt mean they are at war