kevrenor
Well-Known Member
What do you think?
The FFA is not known to date for consistency, natural justice, or transparency.
Do these fans have a case?
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Fan behaviour and FFA approach in the A-League
- Thread starter kevrenor
- Start date
midfielder
Well-Known Member
Stories [maybe in the hundreds] from SFC, MV, AU & PG home ends and now WSW that security employed to oversee them have no idea footballs culture and often harmless actives are closed down and people ejected... further FFA are so scared of the media anything that even remotely looks sus is closed ...
The recent FFA forum ... the WSW one anyway I watched on SBS and a WSW fan raised the issue of security and got heaps of support ...
I think AU fans did something similar earlier in the year that WSW fans did...
I think FFA's is caught between a rock and a hard place ... time for DG to earn his salary.... Home Ends at times do things like flares, some street behaviour, the coin toss referred too on our CCM V SFC thread .... this will get massive media attention by the main stream media even today.... So to avoid the negative press it appears its an over reaction ...
Time for FFA, security, police, stadium management, team management, home ends to get together and kinda agree on acceptable behaviour ... SFC & MV have made good starts in this regard .... however the education of the media and new people to games is something else... this issue needs leadership from the top ...
The recent FFA forum ... the WSW one anyway I watched on SBS and a WSW fan raised the issue of security and got heaps of support ...
I think AU fans did something similar earlier in the year that WSW fans did...
I think FFA's is caught between a rock and a hard place ... time for DG to earn his salary.... Home Ends at times do things like flares, some street behaviour, the coin toss referred too on our CCM V SFC thread .... this will get massive media attention by the main stream media even today.... So to avoid the negative press it appears its an over reaction ...
Time for FFA, security, police, stadium management, team management, home ends to get together and kinda agree on acceptable behaviour ... SFC & MV have made good starts in this regard .... however the education of the media and new people to games is something else... this issue needs leadership from the top ...
dibo
Well-Known Member
Who can show that FFA are overreacting? From WSW supporters this year we've seen bottles of water, bottles of piss, flares and even a f**king pitch invasion at a W-League game. There are fights on film at a trial where a small child was hit by a flying rock, there are reports that the Cove's pub was attacked.
Where there's smoke...
FFA/Hatamoto *should* provide evidence in support of bans, and then they should back then to the hilt. For the game we want active support, we want passion, we don't want or need f**kwits.
Where there's smoke...
FFA/Hatamoto *should* provide evidence in support of bans, and then they should back then to the hilt. For the game we want active support, we want passion, we don't want or need f**kwits.
midfielder
Well-Known Member
WOW I had no idea that the Home ends did all that.... no proof what so ever of over reactions by security staff never happens and never has … I guess you right ... there are no issues the home ends are completely to blame ... FFA & Stadium security are if anything are not hard enough...
The flares and kid being hit with a rock and bottles of piss thrown everywhere typical of HE and only the tip of the ice berg ... the Cove & RBB should be banned from sitting together as all they do is create fear in those that go to games...
Yep see your point the home end f**kwits should all be banned …
But maybe that’s a tad over the top …. So arguably we are talking about a few what maybe 10 pricks maybe 100 maybe 10, 000 who knows … so maybe like the Cove & MV have already started … FFA, Security, Stadium Management, Team Management, Police and the Home Ends get an understanding of each other with HE maybe starting to self-police as well … gotta be worth considering …
The flares and kid being hit with a rock and bottles of piss thrown everywhere typical of HE and only the tip of the ice berg ... the Cove & RBB should be banned from sitting together as all they do is create fear in those that go to games...
Yep see your point the home end f**kwits should all be banned …
But maybe that’s a tad over the top …. So arguably we are talking about a few what maybe 10 pricks maybe 100 maybe 10, 000 who knows … so maybe like the Cove & MV have already started … FFA, Security, Stadium Management, Team Management, Police and the Home Ends get an understanding of each other with HE maybe starting to self-police as well … gotta be worth considering …
dibo
Well-Known Member
Sorry MF, you're way off.
They're not going to tolerate people throwing flares and so on, and I don't see why they should. Self-policing of isolated incidents (which we and the Cove do well) is one thing, but complete idiocy is another.
I agree that proof should be shown to substantiate bans - that would prevent arbitrary or capricious bans and ensure only f**kwits are weeded out. It would also ensure that f**kwits are isolated and excised from home ends so that those of us who are both reasonable and passionate know that we're not going to suffer because of the dimwitted actions of others. It takes away the possibility of mistaken identity - if you're the bloke who threw the flare, you should get punted, not the poor bastard who stood next to you at the time.
What's more unjust - that FFA show evidence in support of bans and punts f**kwits to the boondocks *or* FFA doesn't ban f**kwits, but instead bans home ends from having drums, banners, flags, megaphones and tifos to collectively punish entire home ends?
Don't accuse me of wanting home ends disbanded - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I reckon over the last 8 years I've spent a lot more time in a home end than you have.
They're not going to tolerate people throwing flares and so on, and I don't see why they should. Self-policing of isolated incidents (which we and the Cove do well) is one thing, but complete idiocy is another.
I agree that proof should be shown to substantiate bans - that would prevent arbitrary or capricious bans and ensure only f**kwits are weeded out. It would also ensure that f**kwits are isolated and excised from home ends so that those of us who are both reasonable and passionate know that we're not going to suffer because of the dimwitted actions of others. It takes away the possibility of mistaken identity - if you're the bloke who threw the flare, you should get punted, not the poor bastard who stood next to you at the time.
What's more unjust - that FFA show evidence in support of bans and punts f**kwits to the boondocks *or* FFA doesn't ban f**kwits, but instead bans home ends from having drums, banners, flags, megaphones and tifos to collectively punish entire home ends?
Don't accuse me of wanting home ends disbanded - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I reckon over the last 8 years I've spent a lot more time in a home end than you have.
MrCelery
Well-Known Member
dibo & midfielder, it's pretty obvious that you both want the same thing - good quality fan support without the loony element.
I've been part of 'home end' support for the better part of fifty years in Europe and here. In my experience there will always be an uneasy tension between enthusiastic fans and club\ground administration. There is just no getting away from it, as some fans will always test the boundaries with security, etc. And some officials will go over-the-top with their 'enforcement of the peace'.
Fans that are directly affected are entitled to be aggrieved if they are part of 'collateral damage', eg. expelled through mistaken identity. And worse, if the 'collateral damage' involves banning the whole home end for the sins of the few. That is a totally inappropriate over-reaction.
But it is also inappropriate for mass fan action to protect the 'rights' of the loony element.
I saw some of the 'loony element' at the first round match in Parramatta. It was not pleasant, as they were seriously anti-social. But to be fair to WSW, that element appears to very tiny. The Bogans from the north are far, far worse.
To do what WSW did when they visited us was simply brilliant. They were extremely well behaved.
So my view is to come down hard on the idiots, both through self policing and official sanction. But don't tar all the home end with the same brush. In this regard it appears the WSW club's handling of the issues has been fair.
I've been part of 'home end' support for the better part of fifty years in Europe and here. In my experience there will always be an uneasy tension between enthusiastic fans and club\ground administration. There is just no getting away from it, as some fans will always test the boundaries with security, etc. And some officials will go over-the-top with their 'enforcement of the peace'.
Fans that are directly affected are entitled to be aggrieved if they are part of 'collateral damage', eg. expelled through mistaken identity. And worse, if the 'collateral damage' involves banning the whole home end for the sins of the few. That is a totally inappropriate over-reaction.
But it is also inappropriate for mass fan action to protect the 'rights' of the loony element.
I saw some of the 'loony element' at the first round match in Parramatta. It was not pleasant, as they were seriously anti-social. But to be fair to WSW, that element appears to very tiny. The Bogans from the north are far, far worse.
To do what WSW did when they visited us was simply brilliant. They were extremely well behaved.
So my view is to come down hard on the idiots, both through self policing and official sanction. But don't tar all the home end with the same brush. In this regard it appears the WSW club's handling of the issues has been fair.
kevrenor
Well-Known Member
Simon Hill, who talked about the over 130 year history of the game in Australia today at the NSW National Premier Leagues launch; launches into this issue:
http://www.foxsports.com.au/footbal...-of/story-e6frf4gl-1226595870003#.UT79S9ZTDQo
http://www.foxsports.com.au/footbal...-of/story-e6frf4gl-1226595870003#.UT79S9ZTDQo
midfielder
Well-Known Member
Open letter to MV on 442
An open letter to Melbourne Victory Football Club
To the Melbourne Victory Football Club,
As a democratic and free society, Australia has always prided itself on core social values and legal principles that guide both our justice system, and our civic sense of justice – those being natural justice and the subsequent due process which that entitles citizens to. Football Federation Australia’s (FFA) current regime for handing out and enforcing banning orders, unfortunately, adheres to neither aforementioned principle. The North Terrace leadership is aware of Football Federation Australia’s status as a private enterprise and, that accordingly a different set of rules apply to that of a government institution. However, both the governing body and the venues which help to enforce its bans are recipients of large amounts of tax payer money. Our money.
We do not feel that it is an unreasonable request to expect at least the minimum standard of state and federal legal procedure is followed by Football Federation Australia in the administration of its code of conduct. We ask that the following nationwide legal principles be adhered to by Football Federation Australia in improving the process by which it conducts its banning regime;
a) Due process. In Australia, the burden of proof is rightfully placed on the accuser, not the accused. Innocent until PROVEN guilty is a core concept of Australian justice. In multiple instances Football Federation Australia has banned individuals with no or minimal proof. Never has a ban recipient been provided with allegations, evidence and an opportunity to respond before the issuing of a ban. Being able to hear and see evidence of an alleged offence, and being provided the opportunity to respond before receiving sanctions or punishment, is a core feature of the legal system. It should be a right afforded to every human being in every aspect of a free and democratic society.
b) A right to appeal. The right to a fair and transparent appeals process is key to the legitimacy of any legal judgement handed down in this country. We see no reason why Football Federation Australia should be exempt from having the judgements it passes reviewable by appeal. The lack of a right to appeal under the current regime of bans gives the FFA’s decisions a finality and status above the nations formal law.
c) Freedom of Association. Again, a core belief of Australian society and its judiciary is that any individual should be free from discrimination that is based upon their membership of any particular group, and should receive equal treatment under the law regardless of their status including race, colour, sexuality, gender, or political belief. We feel that these principles have been offended by the FFA in the targeting of specific groups and individuals by Football Federation Australia.
Another key concern of the North Terrace relates to the right to privacy and an implied freedom from unwarranted surveillance and harassment that is assumed by all Australians. While we understand that when an individual enters a private venue, we forfeit our right to an expectation of privacy and exemption from surveillance, being subjected to this same invasive behaviour at non-FFA venues is totally unacceptable. This surveillance conducted in public for the FFA by private security firm Hatamoto, goes against our basic rights to privacy as Australians. We are concerned that as a private body, Hatamoto is not bound by the same checks and balances as our institutions of law and order which are established by statute, accountable to the parliament, and ultimately accountable to the public as electors. We are also concerned by the apparent transfer of personal information between Hatamoto and various police agencies, most noticeably VicPol, and whether this meets VicPol’s own professional guidelines.
We as a collective of individuals who have supported Melbourne Victory Football Club with voice, commitment and money for 8 years now ask in return for the support of the Club in the resolution of these issues with the FFA. We provide what is widely regarded as the best atmosphere the Australian sporting landscape has ever seen, and we fear that it is jeopardised by unfair treatment by the FFA and its agents. Several of these issues have arisen in direct contradiction to the protocols enshrined in the Supporters Charter, which was negotiated in good faith, and to which you as a Club are a key signatory. We feel that if the Club is to afford fairness to its members and supporters, it has both a duty and responsibility to help us argue our case for minimum standards of procedural fairness and natural justice. This is urgent and is not something that can be delayed until the off-season: there has been a proliferation of recent bans on extremely questionable grounds. We urge the Melbourne Victory board to immediately embrace and publicly support our stand for basic rights
Regards,
The North Terrace,
An open letter to Melbourne Victory Football Club
To the Melbourne Victory Football Club,
As a democratic and free society, Australia has always prided itself on core social values and legal principles that guide both our justice system, and our civic sense of justice – those being natural justice and the subsequent due process which that entitles citizens to. Football Federation Australia’s (FFA) current regime for handing out and enforcing banning orders, unfortunately, adheres to neither aforementioned principle. The North Terrace leadership is aware of Football Federation Australia’s status as a private enterprise and, that accordingly a different set of rules apply to that of a government institution. However, both the governing body and the venues which help to enforce its bans are recipients of large amounts of tax payer money. Our money.
We do not feel that it is an unreasonable request to expect at least the minimum standard of state and federal legal procedure is followed by Football Federation Australia in the administration of its code of conduct. We ask that the following nationwide legal principles be adhered to by Football Federation Australia in improving the process by which it conducts its banning regime;
a) Due process. In Australia, the burden of proof is rightfully placed on the accuser, not the accused. Innocent until PROVEN guilty is a core concept of Australian justice. In multiple instances Football Federation Australia has banned individuals with no or minimal proof. Never has a ban recipient been provided with allegations, evidence and an opportunity to respond before the issuing of a ban. Being able to hear and see evidence of an alleged offence, and being provided the opportunity to respond before receiving sanctions or punishment, is a core feature of the legal system. It should be a right afforded to every human being in every aspect of a free and democratic society.
b) A right to appeal. The right to a fair and transparent appeals process is key to the legitimacy of any legal judgement handed down in this country. We see no reason why Football Federation Australia should be exempt from having the judgements it passes reviewable by appeal. The lack of a right to appeal under the current regime of bans gives the FFA’s decisions a finality and status above the nations formal law.
c) Freedom of Association. Again, a core belief of Australian society and its judiciary is that any individual should be free from discrimination that is based upon their membership of any particular group, and should receive equal treatment under the law regardless of their status including race, colour, sexuality, gender, or political belief. We feel that these principles have been offended by the FFA in the targeting of specific groups and individuals by Football Federation Australia.
Another key concern of the North Terrace relates to the right to privacy and an implied freedom from unwarranted surveillance and harassment that is assumed by all Australians. While we understand that when an individual enters a private venue, we forfeit our right to an expectation of privacy and exemption from surveillance, being subjected to this same invasive behaviour at non-FFA venues is totally unacceptable. This surveillance conducted in public for the FFA by private security firm Hatamoto, goes against our basic rights to privacy as Australians. We are concerned that as a private body, Hatamoto is not bound by the same checks and balances as our institutions of law and order which are established by statute, accountable to the parliament, and ultimately accountable to the public as electors. We are also concerned by the apparent transfer of personal information between Hatamoto and various police agencies, most noticeably VicPol, and whether this meets VicPol’s own professional guidelines.
We as a collective of individuals who have supported Melbourne Victory Football Club with voice, commitment and money for 8 years now ask in return for the support of the Club in the resolution of these issues with the FFA. We provide what is widely regarded as the best atmosphere the Australian sporting landscape has ever seen, and we fear that it is jeopardised by unfair treatment by the FFA and its agents. Several of these issues have arisen in direct contradiction to the protocols enshrined in the Supporters Charter, which was negotiated in good faith, and to which you as a Club are a key signatory. We feel that if the Club is to afford fairness to its members and supporters, it has both a duty and responsibility to help us argue our case for minimum standards of procedural fairness and natural justice. This is urgent and is not something that can be delayed until the off-season: there has been a proliferation of recent bans on extremely questionable grounds. We urge the Melbourne Victory board to immediately embrace and publicly support our stand for basic rights
Regards,
The North Terrace,
FFC Mariner
Well-Known Member
Provided they could get a hearing, the FFA's bans being tested in a proper court would be interesting.
According to some WSW twitter feeds, it is being explored but one imagines sooner or later the retards running the FFA will fail to see the PR disaster until its too late.
I'm with Dibo. Act like a f**k tard and no ban is long enough. All fans wants to see is a transparent process that recognises the rights of the accused.
Not too much to ask in a democratic country is it? (refugees and other people on the margins of society need not apply)
According to some WSW twitter feeds, it is being explored but one imagines sooner or later the retards running the FFA will fail to see the PR disaster until its too late.
I'm with Dibo. Act like a f**k tard and no ban is long enough. All fans wants to see is a transparent process that recognises the rights of the accused.
Not too much to ask in a democratic country is it? (refugees and other people on the margins of society need not apply)
BrisRecky
I'm an idiot savant without the pesky savant bit
just watched a Smurf fan get a schooner glass to the head by WSW/RBB fans on ch 10 news...how much more bullshit do these clowns have to pull before they get locked out....I dont give a rats arse about innocent until proven guilty...if they wont cough up or police the perps themselves, then shut the lot down...radical but effective
Capn Gus Bloodbeard
Well-Known Member
Seeing WSW in the media for misbehaving fans is getting about as surprising as seeing CCM miss a penalty kick, it's just getting ridiculous and while we love their numbers and support, at this point the argument could be made that they're causing more harm to the league's reputation than benefit.
It's just ridiculous now. Sure, it's nice to see the support they're bringing, but they've also fought hard to ensure they've topped MV as the worst behaved fans from..well, even before the season started.
Though I have also come across unconfirmed reports, on another forum, of some MV fans seeking out firm-style organised fights with other fans (hoping it's not true though, and yet to find out anything further)
I bet if it wasn't a team the FFA owned they'd actually try to do something about it....but then again, remembering how they didn't seem to care that the Squadron used to consistently throw coins at players, perhaps not....
It's just ridiculous now. Sure, it's nice to see the support they're bringing, but they've also fought hard to ensure they've topped MV as the worst behaved fans from..well, even before the season started.
Though I have also come across unconfirmed reports, on another forum, of some MV fans seeking out firm-style organised fights with other fans (hoping it's not true though, and yet to find out anything further)
I bet if it wasn't a team the FFA owned they'd actually try to do something about it....but then again, remembering how they didn't seem to care that the Squadron used to consistently throw coins at players, perhaps not....
FFC Mariner
Well-Known Member
To be fair to WSW, they were as good as gold when they came up here.
However, a derby is different and WSW have a really high % of utter f**ktards.
Personally, if I was a SFC fan, I wouldnt go in colours or be away from the group if I was.
Given the scums love of goading other sides fans, you can imagine that it will kick off horribly this week
However, a derby is different and WSW have a really high % of utter f**ktards.
Personally, if I was a SFC fan, I wouldnt go in colours or be away from the group if I was.
Given the scums love of goading other sides fans, you can imagine that it will kick off horribly this week
BrisRecky
I'm an idiot savant without the pesky savant bit
SO since the wanderers came to BT and the RBB basically behaved themselves, they have been going mental since, before the derby the RBB glass some poor smurf in the ribs joint in Parra, NO PENALTY FROM FFA...then up the F3 they come and the Wanderers tie up the title...AND...the RBB arsehat's start bashing people in the car park at the Scumdome....I mean, when do the FA step on these c**ts...does someone have to die first....
Capn Gus Bloodbeard
Well-Known Member
Disgusting, isn't it? Funny to see the WSW supporters whinge and attack me when I comment on it on facebook 
They're all just oh-so-picked on by the ruthless media....
They're all just oh-so-picked on by the ruthless media....
sydmariner
Well-Known Member
yes it's those rbb c***s @ the 2nd ccm v wsw game they ran out of bottled water
sydmariner
Well-Known Member
from now on the ffa should strip point's 4 stuff like that
sydmariner
Well-Known Member
what about jail ?
I think this will be a possibility, at least the FFA will threaten it. I think the NRL did it when the Bulldogs fans were going mental?
FFC Mariner
Well-Known Member
Did indeed Adz, architect? 1 D Gallop
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