AIS

[Kareem]

Hi
I just wanted to know what the AIS is about in Australian Football...I know heaps of players are bred there?
Viduka and not to mention some dirty little player that turned his back on us to play for croatia i think?
A few questions?
1. What will be happening to AIS with NYL starting up?
2. What does eveyrone on here think about making AIS like university in Australia?
I am currently doing a degree and with my HECS (to cover the costs of my degree) nI have to start paying back money to Govt. if my earning capacity surpasses 37k approx. pa.
Now I was hearing a couple of years back how much the AIS was costing the taxpayers (also talked about tennis players I think). Now yes it is important to develop future Australian sports people but we should make them sign something.
Personally i think 37k is a fair  enough earning capacity to start paying back.
But hey let's even say 100k. People like Viduak would make a small payment to give back money which can then be used to reinvest into AIS and save on taxpayers money!
I mean Viduka could certainly afford to pay back all of it in one go (although the HECS payment plan is more gradual I think?)
And even if people still want to let them get away...I definately think we should have a clause for backstabbers (like croation dude) where they or their new country has to compensate the AIS!!! At least put a clause in it. Because at least I have comfort in knowing that Viduka has scored like 8 goals (probs more but whatever it is it is still pretty shameful) for Australia and cpatianed Australia which is a sort of value for money unlike croatian dude who has done nothing for us!
What do you guys think?

 

[Kareem]

...

 

[fish]

I think the AIS will become a great breeding ground for the NYL as the players currently there will be farmed out to us ,Sydney and the Jets I believe and if there are opportunities for young lads to do so for years to come they will get the absolute best of the best going down there

 

[dibo]

I don't know about the other bits, but i'm more up on the policy side of things:

2. What does eveyrone on here think about making AIS like university in Australia?
I am currently doing a degree and with my HECS (to cover the costs of my degree) nI have to start paying back money to Govt. if my earning capacity surpasses 37k approx. pa.
Now I was hearing a couple of years back how much the AIS was costing the taxpayers (also talked about tennis players I think). Now yes it is important to develop future Australian sports people but we should make them sign something.
Personally i think 37k is a fair  enough earning capacity to start paying back.
But hey let's even say 100k. People like Viduak would make a small payment to give back money which can then be used to reinvest into AIS and save on taxpayers money!
I mean Viduka could certainly afford to pay back all of it in one go (although the HECS payment plan is more gradual I think?)
And even if people still want to let them get away...I definately think we should have a clause for backstabbers (like croation dude) where they or their new country has to compensate the AIS!!! At least put a clause in it. Because at least I have comfort in knowing that Viduka has scored like 8 goals (probs more but whatever it is it is still pretty shameful) for Australia and cpatianed Australia which is a sort of value for money unlike croatian dude who has done nothing for us!
What do you guys think?

The AIS I think now requires students to sign a contract of sorts saying that they will only represent Australia. Whether this has a clause in it saying that if they dont they have to pay it back Im not sure, it probably wouldnt be that much of a deterrent for the likes of Joe Simunic anyway because hed be making a pretty penny at Hertha Berlin.

Theres also the question of whether its legal to have a minor signing a contract that will put them at a loss in certain circumstances. Binding the parents wont work because parents cant determine their childrens actions and there would be restraint of trade issues. Its a complicated area, one for the lawyers among us to have a play with.

Having a general HECS-type system isnt a bad idea, but the income test should be based on income earnt from sport, or there should be a tie-in with the AIS and either ANU or UC in Canberra so the students can study for free.

Generally speaking I think this is something other sports academies should be able to do as well building up sport and university links ensures both that the unis get publicity and public support and that sportspeople have something to fall back on.

If there is a HECS-type system, should there be a subsidy as there is with HECS-HELP for undergraduate students, or should it be a fully privately paid FEE-HELP system? The difference in an educational context is that if the M.Ec course Im doing was subsidised it would cost me about $12,750. As its a FEE-HELP course, Im the full fees: about $21,960.

Sports training is more expensive than a few lectures too there are equipment, accommodation, food and facilities costs that go on top. How much should the government be paying for? How much should they be asking young athletes to pay for themselves, and how should they be expected to pay it back? What of the majority of people coming through who will not make a motza from their careers?

 

[marinersman]

On TWG, Rob Baan said that if clubs want players from the institues such as AIS, VIS, NSWIS, QAS etc it needs to be ratified by the FFA first.

They may agree to clubs signing them or the clubs having them on a fly in, fly out basis, but in the case of the AIS, the contract would remain with the AIS.

 

[Kareem]

I don't know about the other bits, but i'm more up on the policy side of things:

2. What does eveyrone on here think about making AIS like university in Australia?
I am currently doing a degree and with my HECS (to cover the costs of my degree) nI have to start paying back money to Govt. if my earning capacity surpasses 37k approx. pa.
Now I was hearing a couple of years back how much the AIS was costing the taxpayers (also talked about tennis players I think). Now yes it is important to develop future Australian sports people but we should make them sign something.
Personally i think 37k is a fair  enough earning capacity to start paying back.
But hey let's even say 100k. People like Viduak would make a small payment to give back money which can then be used to reinvest into AIS and save on taxpayers money!
I mean Viduka could certainly afford to pay back all of it in one go (although the HECS payment plan is more gradual I think?)
And even if people still want to let them get away...I definately think we should have a clause for backstabbers (like croation dude) where they or their new country has to compensate the AIS!!! At least put a clause in it. Because at least I have comfort in knowing that Viduka has scored like 8 goals (probs more but whatever it is it is still pretty shameful) for Australia and cpatianed Australia which is a sort of value for money unlike croatian dude who has done nothing for us!
What do you guys think?

The AIS I think now requires students to sign a contract of sorts saying that they will only represent Australia. Whether this has a clause in it saying that if they don’t they have to pay it back I’m not sure, it probably wouldn’t be that much of a deterrent for the likes of Joe Simunic anyway because he’d be making a pretty penny at Hertha Berlin.

There’s also the question of whether it’s legal to have a minor signing a contract that will put them at a loss in certain circumstances. Binding the parents won’t work because parents can’t determine their children’s actions and there would be restraint of trade issues. It’s a complicated area, one for the lawyers among us to have a play with.

Having a general HECS-type system isn’t a bad idea, but the income test should be based on income earnt from sport, or there should be a tie-in with the AIS and either ANU or UC in Canberra so the students can study for free.

Generally speaking I think this is something other sports academies should be able to do as well – building up sport and university links ensures both that the unis get publicity and public support and that sportspeople have something to fall back on.

If there is a HECS-type system, should there be a subsidy as there is with HECS-HELP for undergraduate students, or should it be a fully privately paid FEE-HELP system? The difference in an educational context is that if the M.Ec course I’m doing was subsidised it would cost me about $12,750. As it’s a FEE-HELP course, I’m the full fees: about $21,960.

Sports training is more expensive than a few lectures too – there are equipment, accommodation, food and facilities costs that go on top. How much should the government be paying for? How much should they be asking young athletes to pay for themselves, and how should they be expected to pay it back? What of the majority of people coming through who will not make a motza from their careers?

Nice views...
I wouldnt say there should be any HECS fees full stop.
Nothing to be paid unless you make it BIG!
If you dont make it big...say never sign a contract worth 100k+ pa. then you dont pay it back (just like if you dont earn >39k).
I dont think they ask young athletes to pay for anything at the moment which is fair enough (we need to make it easy for them). The money paid back to the Govt. from the 5-10% that make it BIG!!! will help to slightly offset the costs...

 

[Jesus]

You onbly have to pay back these days if you playt for a foreign national team i believe now

 

[scottmac]

Does anyone think that having the NYL will keep our younger players with dual heritage a lot more interested in playing for Australia?

I reckon that having the chance to start their careers in Australia for a 'top flight' Australian club and being exposed to training camps and games (such as the singapore game, eg Bruce Djite) for the national team will minimise the problem of players who learn their trade at the AIS leaving for other countries.

Now if only Verbeek will blood Vidosic, Spiranovic and that guy playing for Siena in Italy. (can't remeber his name top scorer for River Plate Uraguay, little help?)

 

[Kareem]

well better than nothing... (for those who play in a foreign national team)
but what I am also saying is why not make someone who is truly  indebted to AIS to pay back some or if they can...all of it!
Like John Aloi$i who is a millionaire, or Bresciano, Viduka, Grella, Neill, Moore etc. or not so much yet- Josh Kennedy (all AIS graduates).
they should have to give back something.
I know there is no right for them to ask them now...
but wat bout the next Aloi$i, Viduka, Neill etc.
If I was given the chance of being with the AIS and they told me I had to pay back x% if I made say 100k, and then y% if I made over 1 mill....I would sign up...

To Scottmac
Richard Porta playin for Siena??? The Uruguayan dude...
I dunno if it is ethically right for us to snip other countries players. He is Uruguayan background, doesnt even speak English...hasnt come back here since he was born. He was developed in Uruguay...it seems a bit hypocritical of us!
I dunno whether it is right to

 

[scottmac]

Yeah thats the bloke.
He was born in Australia and there is nothing hypocritical about wanting him to play for the country of his birth. All(some, edited because i don't actually know! :his family live here and he has said that he would consider playing for Australia.
I can see what you mean about players paying back the academy costs but any one of the AIS graduates you mention above have already sacrificed plenty to play for their country some of them a lot more than any cost involved in training them at the AIS.
For foriegn country players charge 'em, for our Aussie boys, i'm willing to pay the tax!

 

[Jesus]

once you are earning an income overseas you get taxed in that country. You would hence only be taxed for playing in a-league clubs, or roos.

I dont see a reason to give players the thought of staying overseas longer, avoiding national duty due to save cash.

The fact is that high profile sports stars do tend to back back their ais debt with contributions to the national mood, happyness etc. If they didnt the govt would not fund it. The govt likes australia being one of the top nations in the world. So do australians. Hence it is an investment for the govt, not a liability

 

[Kareem]

from what I hear...Porta's maternal grandparents + some cousins live in Sydney

valid points- especially the 'staying overseas' longer.

I just have one question
why on earth do I have to pay back my HECS if I am bringing pleasure to Australian's feet???

 

[Jesus]

You arent

 

[Jesus]

hecs sucks. University was free. Until reintroduced fees under hawke i think. Ofcourse everyone who voted to bring back uni fees had 2 oir 3 free degrees.

An absolute rort yes.
Could it be funded by the govt? yes

 

[Kareem]

You arent

arent wat?
bringing pleasure to people's feet?
Not yet...
but I would assume I will be doing so in 3 years...

 

[scottmac]

I dont see a reason to give players the thought of staying overseas longer, avoiding national duty due to save cash.

Sorry, I meant other national team players eg Simunic.

 

[Jesus]

players who play for nations overseas now have to pay. Though they did not used to.

 

[marinersman]

I don't know to what extent Aus players overseas give back to our game in time,expertise and money, but I know Lucas Neill personally paid for the grandstand at Cromer Park and pays for two youngsters from Manly to go over to the UK on scholarships and trials at clubs every year.

I wouldn't be suprised if other Euro players as well contribute in some way, but as I said I don't know if it happens or not.

 

[dibo]

hecs sucks. University was free. Until reintroduced fees under hawke i think. Ofcourse everyone who voted to bring back uni fees had 2 oir 3 free degrees.

An absolute rort yes.
Could it be funded by the govt? yes

i've had my views change on this in odd ways over the years, but that should probably be in an 'other stuff' thread sometime.

 

[dibo]

back to the AIS, got a tip that we're a bit off-track with where the discussion has gone so far, and the AIS FAQ is pretty handy to enlighten us - http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/faqs

1 Can I pay to come to the AIS?
The AIS selects scholarship holders on sporting aptitude and potential. There is not a fee-paying option for entry to the AIS. Each AIS Sport website has information about how scholarships are selected for that sport. Go to the AIS Sports section of this website and select the sport(s) you are interested in.

2 Can I come to the AIS to study sport or a sport-related career?
The AIS is not a tertiary institution. For information on sport-related courses in Australia go to our Courses database section of this website.

3 Can the AIS help me get a job in sport Australia?
For more information about working at the AIS see Job vacancies

4 I am really good at a certain sport. How do I get chosen for the AIS?
The AIS supports national level athletes. There is a very strong base of support for state athletes throught the State Institues and Academies of Sport (SISAS) Network that often assist talented athletes. As a first step, you should contact your local institution about athletes scholarships in your state.

5 I am a coach, how can I come and work/study at the AIS?
For more information about working at the AIS see the Jobs at the AIS section of this website. Australian sporting associations may also have opportunities for coaches in Australia. These organisations can be contacted throught the sports directory on this site.

so it's a scholarship for younger (secondary age) students, i guess like a really intensive sports high school. i gather state institutes are similar. we don't make other people pay scholarships back if they go OS...

for more info about football generally, the AIS football page has the following:

Football is a sport that requires a range of dynamic skills that include short, explosive movements, endurance, agility, technical and tactical skills, and lots of decision-making. Elite football players have honed these skills to an exceptional level, but have done so with the help of advanced training techniques, sports science and sports medicine, and opportunities for competition. All of this can be achieved through a holistic program such as that offered by the Australian Institute of Sport (AIS).

Football was one of the eight founding sports of the AIS. The program was established in 1981 with two broad aims - to identify and develop players for the national under-20 youth team and to develop coaches through the Scholarship Coaching scheme.

The players are usually 16 (turning 17) years of age when they begin their scholarship. Scholarships are for one year initially with a second year being offered if the players do well. The AIS team competes in the National Youth League and has an excellent record of success given the young age of the players.

The team embarks on annual overseas tours to enable the players to further develop experience and professionalism against a variety of opposition and playing styles. Tours have included Malaysia, China, South America, Mexico, Europe and the United States. Other areas integrated into the AIS program include sports psychology, nutrition, physiology, biomechanics, strength and conditioning, recovery and travel skills.

The AIS Football program is a residential program. It is well known and respected throughout most Football countries and is seen by many as a quality feeding ground for professional domestic and international clubs.

i imagine that the graduates may find themselves in youth league squads, and clubs that develop their own academies (which pretty much means us so far) may seek to dovetail our programs with the AIS and the FFA to ensure consistency of technical and tactical instruction.

it also sounds like welly might be aiming to base a team in canberra for the NYL (staffed with aussie players so the FFA's paying to develop our players, not kiwis) so they've got cover for injuries etc. the same as everyone else will, so that way they can't pull an aloisi stunt like we did while the rest of the league has to follow the NYL focussed injury replacement rules.